Old School 45 Colt loading

[cbrick]

SOME shooting activities, like it or not, require large quantities of ammunition. I was an active Bullseye shooter for many years, and our club even bought a Star Universal loader just for .38 Specials. I wish that I'd had the Dillon back then; it would have eased my shooting life considerably.

If you don't like Dillons, or the concept of producing LOTS of rounds in short order, that's just fine. However, what I'm seeing here is some folks looking down their noses or sneering at those of us who have availed ourselves of the technology available to make SOME parts of our shooting activities a whole lot easier.

I understand there is a place for them and that some shooting sports do need higher production at the loading bench. I wonder though how many of them in use have nothing to do with high volume shooting sports.

No looking down my nose, I have nothing what so ever against them other than they aren't for me just like a fully automatic Magma Master Caster isn't for me. I have always heard they are a well built machine but I saw no need when I was competing so with the few hundred rounds a year I now seem to be shooting I sure don't need one now. If you enjoy yours I think that's a fine thing. All I meant by bringing up Dillon's name was that it's good for him that everybody doesn't look at it like I do. Don't ya think?

Then of course there is that this is the "hand tool" forum, not the automated machine forum.

Rick

[Char-Gar]

I will plead guilty to taking a little back hand swipe at the blue boys. It was intended to be good natured, as I really don't give a hoot (or whatever) others like to load with. I didn't think anybody would take that silliness serious and feel the need to defend their choice. Progressive loaders have their place in the scheme of things, just not on my loading bench.

Therefore premises considered, I do truly and heartily repent of my sin, the memory of it is grievous unto me. Now can we get back to old school reloading?

[Springfield]

Since my Dillon 550's require me to pull the handle on every round and I have to place the brass on the carrier and I have to hand place the bullet on the case, how is my Dillon any less a "hand tool' then a 310? I COULD get a brass feeder and even an after- market bullet feeder, but I choose not to. Seems to me a base 550 is just a more complicated hand tool, nothing automated about it. Certainly no electricity required.

[Char-Gar]

Since my Dillon 550's require me to pull the handle on every round and I have to place the brass on the carrier and I have to hand place the bullet on the case, how is my Dillon any less a "hand tool' then a 310? I COULD get a brass feeder and even an after- market bullet feeder, but I choose not to. Seems to me a base 550 is just a more complicated hand tool, nothing automated about it. Certainly no electricity required.

You hold a hand tool in your hand to use it. A bench tool is mounted on the bench to use it. This basic understanding takes the Dillon and any bench press out of the hand tool category.

This thread is getting a little weird!

[9.3X62AL]

This thread is getting a little weird!

Just a little.

No intention on my part to disparage the Blue Machines--they are superb mechanisms for those who choose to herd such beasts. Only a few of my calibers are here in numbers large enough to justify going progressive, and as said before there is just too much going on at once with a fully-progressive system for me to be comfy with the process or its products.

[Green Frog]

Since my Dillon 550's require me to pull the handle on every round and I have to place the brass on the carrier and I have to hand place the bullet on the case, how is my Dillon any less a "hand tool' then a 310? I COULD get a brass feeder and even an after- market bullet feeder, but I choose not to. Seems to me a base 550 is just a more complicated hand tool, nothing automated about it. Certainly no electricity required.

When you hold your Dillon 550 in your hand and operate it (preferably in the Kitchen) then you can call it a hand tool. You are still by definition "hand loading" because you are doing it yourself with hand power, but there is no way to stretch the definition of hand tool enough to encompass that Dillon. Again, let's use this particular forum to talk about the use of Hand Tools to Reload, like the title says. There are lots of other forums to talk about other types of reloading and the equipment it entails.

Green Frog

[Green Frog]

I'm sort of surprised Froggie has not PM'd about that Powder measure I was trying to rib him about.

I'm planning on using that kind of powder measure as a hand tool... holding it over each shell in the tray and operating the rotor knob. No PM needed though, 'cause I hope I'm already first on your list.

Froggie

[Green Frog]

Well, as luck would have it, I ran into a deal on an odd bunch of NOS Little Dandy rotors at the Fishersville, VA gun show today. I was able to close the gaps and complete my set of rotors from #00 to #26. Now all I need is one of the custom, adjustable units from BaileyBoats so I have complete overkill!

I've also gotten a complete set of rotors assembled for the Lyman AccuMeasure, which was a good thing, since that item is long discontinued. It does look good on top of my Lyman All American on the Lyman "Through the Expander" Powder Die.

Now I get to spend some quality time with my lathe making rotors for the Pacific Pistol Powder Measure since the chances of finding original ones I need are somewhere between slim and none! I'm sure looking forward to using that measure as part of my grand scheme, though!

Froggie

[9.3X62AL]

wooohooo Froggie get to play with a new toy.

This sort of event makes most of us pretty ecstatic. I know I'm sure enjoying my rebored Win 94 in 38-55, and my S&W Bekeart 22 LR revolver. Finally--an I/J frame with OEM grips that actually fit my hands.

[Speedo66]

Used this recently to load a box of 50. Slow, but can't say I didn't enjoy it. Came across it in one of my boxes, and thought I'd just deprime one case. Next thing 'ya know, I finished the box. Well, might as well prime them. And put some powder in them. Hey, might as well finish 'em.

Old, but still worked fine. Funny to be holding something used by who knows how many. Not a 310, but a direct descendant.

[Wayne Smith]

Hey, Froggie, I didn't know you have a lathe. When you get on it and make those bushings for the Pacific Pistol Power measure please make two of each and send me a set? I've got one official and several I've cobbled up but I'm just drilling holes in half inch brass. Not even well centered so I can't do the ones that are very thin.

PS: when I got mine the aluminum slide was broken. Buckshot made me a very nice steel slide.

[Green Frog]

Wrong Pacific Pistol Measure, Wayne... the one I got from my new e-friend SgtMike is the old style that uses a rotor like the Little Dandy™ only smaller (hence its attractiveness for tiny charges.) It sounds like you got the later, slide type measure that just uses different bushings within the same slide, right?

Froggie

[Wayne Smith]

Yup. That's the one. Although I have a Bair Pistol Powder measure that uses a similar system, and I think yours may be the same, just later after Pacific bought Bair?

[Green Frog]

Nope, different beast. See PM.

Froggie

PS Here's a picture of a good example of the type I got... mine's not quite so pristine, but it's complete and it works well.

[EddieNFL]

You really don't need a stinking thousand dollar progressive reloader to produce good ammo.

Where as I agree with you on that point...try telling it to anyone who owns a Dillon...

Why not agree all tools have a use?

I have nine presses covering virtually every type. I thoroughly enjoy using old tools too load certain cartridges. I've also fired in excess of 50K .45 ACP in 12 months (on more than one occasion). I didn't use a hand press...or a single stage.

[doc1876]

Don't know if it matters, but over 40 yrs ago, I got an old Ideal in 44-40. it set in drawers and closets until two years ago when I decided to start loading for my .45 colt. Well later I got Henry from Uberti, and needed to reload 44-40s for it. I got a set of Lyman dies for my reloader, and could not get that thing to load them no way shape or form. Everyone I talked to said that 44-40s are the worst to reload, and I agreed............well, I got that old Ideal hand loader down, and tried it to see what the difference was, and when I got done with it. I was able to see where my mistakes were, and reset the Lyman, and now off and running
The moral is that some times the old ways are there to teach, and I am glad I listened.

[doc1876]

Mike..."Back in the day" when they could be had for $50 to $60, I had four Colt New Service sixguns in 45 Colt. But, when I went back to school in 1970, they were all sold to help with expenses. I have missed them very much and when I started looking again about 9 years ago, they were quite high. It took me several years to find one in good shooting condition at a price I could tolerate and that is the sixgun in the pic. It is not going anywhere, until they ship me off to the home and take away my guns. That will be a sad day for them and me and I won't go easy into that good night!

Come on Grandad, you have to understand you get older now, need constant care and the guns scare the attendants. Bull S^&%, I cry!

Yea, my kids are scared for that day to come too. great laugh, thanks

[Green Frog]

doc1876,

I think if everyone would load a few hundred rounds with a Lyman 310 Tool™ or even one of the single stage C-type presses and have to adjust everything from scratch to make it work, they would understand and be able to troubleshoot the turrets and progressives much more easily. Seeing each step through one at a time may be a little old fashioned and is certainly a little slow, but the knowledge curve that comes with it is pretty impressive. BTW, I started out on a TruLine Jr and tong tools sometime in the early '70s and still actively use both, along with some progressives and full sized "modern" presses. Gotta get back to my roots every now and again!

Froggie

"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left!"

[goofyoldfart]

well now, I have enjoyed these 5 pages. I started with Lee whackem and 310 tong tools (8mm and 38sp, respectively). it was all I could afford at the time. It taught me the mechanics of the process and allowed me to have a lot of fun shooting. Yea, as later years came around I bought 2 single stages and had another given to me. then I found a deal on a couple of OLD turrent presses. Funny thing though, I never quit using the old stuff and still do. Now that I'm retired and on S.S. I can't afford the new fangled stuff, hell I can barely afford powder, primers and brass. (got several buddies that keep me topped off with lead, though--God Bless 'em). BUT, I do understand those that use the high production presses no matter what the color. I shot competition for 25 years and I busted my butt to keep in loaded ammo with my turrent presses. So, yea Bruce (and others), I definately know where you are coming from and can appreciate your point of view. But today, I am no longer shooting comp and being disabled, I really enjoy the time that I have with the old stuff. It's relaxing and brings back some precious moments. As we all reload--I respect all who do so no matter what equipment we use. I just derive alot of pleasure doing the old and slow. If it ever comes down to a SHTF situation, well I have enough ammo factory produced to hit the firing line and I can still hit what I shoot at. If that situation comes about, well, there is the NVA quartermaster system and let the enemy supply the loads. Don't think I would survive long term, But I would hope to be ONE EXPENSIVE B**TARD to take out. Not afraid to die, God loves me. But would like to have a little longer to be an old man using some neat and fun old tools.

May God Bless each and every one of you and yours. Goofy aka Godfrey.

[9.3X62AL]

Well written, Goof. In Nevada in recent days, a group of folks that decided to become "Expensive Bar Stads To Take Out" caused some Federal Freddies to re-examine their goals in animal husbandry. I suspect this incident won't be the last chapter written in this story, or the last story told on this theme. Our local--county--state--and Federal governments are sorely in need of re-learning their places in the lives of the citizens that employ them. "Taxpayer" and "citizen" differ MARKEDLY from "subject" or "chattel slave", and the time may come when we will be required to do some teaching.