new member - Lee Loader supplies question

[RogerDat]

Thanks for the information uscra112 and Wayne. I had my doubts about single powder crossing from pistol to 303 British. I just downloaded the Lee dipper chart of grains for several brands of powder. Thinking that by looking up load data I can find something that will have a dipper that if not at starting load is not too much over. Good to have more than one manual or reputable source to confirm I'm in the safe range. That is what I did (with some help) for 38 special, the Lee loader scoop did not yield an exact starting load with unique but was close to the middle between starting and max load for 125 gr cast bullet.

Will look into Red Dot and see how that would work. Sort of complicated to work out because what mold(s) I get to cast boolits with will impact what powders I can use and hit a good load using a Lee dipper. I know a powder measure would be useful but would like to work out how to do this on a budget, would rather get a scale than measure if I was spending money.

Noticed in the Lee manual all the 303 British load data was for jacketed, not sure what difference jacket vs lead makes but will certainly need to figure that out from some other source.

Still waiting to get out and try that first batch, been too darn cold.

[uscra112]

Hast thou no scale ? ? Hie the hence and get one. (A beam, not a digital!)

Dippers are for shotgun shell reloading.

[RogerDat]

Hast thou no scale ? ? Hie the hence and get one. (A beam, not a digital!)

Dippers are for shotgun shell reloading.

Have read with interest the numerous threads on dippers, seems like it runs a close third to politics or religion for folks having strong positions. I know not having a scale (yet) is a handicap to developing any sort of custom load, it also removes a useful double check on the dipper. However I'm just getting started and trying to do so with the minimum expense so going with dippers for now. Would rather gain some experience and purchase decent quality for the long haul as finances and experience dictates. Most expensive item I have purchased so far (outside of materials) is the Lee Loader. Followed by a $20 hot plate. I did send a PM to a member that had a used scale for sale but have not heard back yet.

Right now the next item on my to-purchase list is a face shield so I can attempt making some ingots. Hoping to make it to HD tonight to purchase one.

At this point if those 38's I loaded with a dipper are suitable for plinking holes in paper plates I'll be happy, make some ingots, then purchase a mold and cast some boolits. If all goes well then I can sit down and consider what do I really need to improve my results and of those items which will provide the most bang for the buck (bad pun alert).

Reminds me I was going to post my expenses, figure someone else who like me wanted to stick a toe in the water might appreciate what it cost to get started, seems that once one gets going down this road one can spend money like a sailor on shore leave without half trying. And there are things such as a face shield or welding apron that might not be factored in by a noob such as myself. My goal such as it is was to make enough ammo at a low enough cost that I could honestly tell my wife I was saving money..... as opposed to starting an expensive new hobby.

[Wayne Smith]

Well, I've been casting over 10 years and have never used a face shield or an apron. I cast standing and wear glasses. If you don't wear glasses get some safety glasses - you need them for shooting anyway. Blue jeans and a cotton shirt stop lead - I have many examples to prove it. The only time I would want an apron would be if I cast sitting down and had the potential for the whole thing to land in my lap. Then it would be a leather apron!

[RogerDat]

I do get what your saying about clothes (non synthetic) and glasses being sufficient. Especially if one is trying to keep the cost down. Funny how important we fellows feel it is to avoid ending up with a lap full of molten lead. Little splashed on the face, not an issue if our eyes are protected but the lap.... whole different story!

Both items were suggested here on the forum and since it won't bother me to wear them (I used to wear them for work) and I wanted new clean glasses for casting anyway went with the shield. I'll probably use this stuff for more than casting at least once in awhile so the cost is not all tied to casting activity. I'll be working in a pretty cold garage so it may be the shield will have fogging issues, hopefully not.

[Dave Bulla]

Check your pm's Roger.

[RogerDat]

Check your pm's Roger.

Done and thanks!

[RogerDat]

I did a stupid. While out running errands decided to stop at the tire shop to see about getting some wheel weights. I did not know the current price of scrap WW, the tire manager did not know what they were getting from the scrap dealer and did not want to make a mistake. Bottom line I paid way too much for a small (1 gallon) bucket containing 15 lbs. Paid less than RotoMetals for finished ingots but.... Guess I just paid a "fools tax". Know your prices before going shopping to avoid this tax!

Looking forward to going through the process of sorting, melting and cleaning these WW into ingots.

[RogerDat]

I'm seeing a sort of black sludge forming on the top of my melt. How do I know if this is the "good stuff" I should try harder to mix back in or just oxide from the scrap lead that should be skimmed off?

Fluxing with bees wax.

[RogerDat]

Pot with black gunk around the edges of the pot. Also showing the type of lead scrap being melted.
And first ingots cast.

[RogerDat]

I'm seeing some metal what I would call it slush rising to the top. I mix that back in then add bees wax.
This is what I get after the bees wax is put on the melt. That I have been removing with a slotted spoon. Am hoping I'm not scooping out something I should leave in.

[RogerDat]

This stuff is so much fun it's addictive!
Ended up with about 60 lbs. of ingots from 2 1/2 of my 4 plates of unknown lead.
Sort of odd a pencil hardness test of the source is harder than the ingots. Figure as soon as I can I'll order some alloy to mix with this and be ready to go end-to-end with a Lee loader to finished bullets.

[Wayne Smith]

Yup, it is addicting! Your wax reduces oxidized metal back into the melt. This would be tin oxide or lead oxide. You want those. It does not clean other metals out of the mix, charcoal does this. Thus all the talk about sawdust, many of us are handymen or woodworkers as well and have a surplus of this stuff laying around anyway! Dump in a small handful of sawdust (pine or cedar smells good, but I use almost all hardwood) and let it become charcoal. Mix this through your lead and skim off the residue. Don't be too quick, wait until it's dust.

[RogerDat]

Nuts. Cleaned out the table saw just a little bit ago. Since everything is somewhat frosty I'm guessing my melt was a little hot. I tried mixing that black gunk back in with limited success, eventually I just skimmed it off. Wayne sounds like your saying that gunk might have been some tin. The source metal was oxidized a fair amount, even had some rust on it from the metal case it had been in. Wire brushed it fairly well but not to totally shiny.

Started considering the hardness difference between source and ingot. 1). On ingot I was scratching frost, maybe I should run a file across the surface and try again. 2). Might have pulled some alloy out with the flux and too hot melt. 3). Source metal surface was in effect forged by repeated pounding in use which might have made the surface I tested denser. It took one of the H pencils to scratch the source Putting it up around lino or #2 BHN but the ingot scratched with 3B so less than 20/1 tin BHN

[Dave Bulla]

Hi Roger,

You've got a package on the way. Should be there by Christmas.

Also, check out this other post I did on another forum about some simple modifications to improve accuracy. If you have access to or know anyone who is a machinist, they can easily make a bushing for you that will just fit the die and the case.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/re...provement.html

[RogerDat]

Hi Roger,

You've got a package on the way. Should be there by Christmas.

Also, check out this other post I did on another forum about some simple modifications to improve accuracy. If you have access to or know anyone who is a machinist, they can easily make a bushing for you that will just fit the die and the case.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/re...provement.html

Thank you very much. I'm heading into the holidays in a happy state of mind between you generosity and our local tire store being good guys. They sold me 150lbs of WW for $30 which is same price local scrap yard would have paid them per pound. $36 if you count the doz. donuts I threw in to "sweeten" the deal. Turns out one of the guys is partial to apple fritters, so apple fritters he shall get. The 15lbs (1gallon) I got from them before was mostly lead when checked with wire cutters. Shop sells used tires so may see a higher volume of older cars with older wheel weights come through.

Now if I can get a break in the weather so I can melt some of those WW down with the garage wide open and a couple of fans.

I did look at pictures of your bushing at one point and it is something I would like to pursue as an aid to generating consistent ammo.

[drtoddw]

Don't be too reliant on the Lee manual. You will find that they tested no loads, simply copied powder company data, and often not a lot of that. You will find a better selection of data in the Lyman or the Sierra manuals.

I agree, but would add that for ANY manual...especially when starting out before you "get a feel" for what is appropriate. I have seen questionable data in almost every manual. will say that my personal experience is that Lee data tends to be pretty conservative and leans well towards the "safe" side. I have both the 48th and 49th editions of the Lyman, and especially when first starting out, I would double check against data from Alliant's and IMR's website and any other data I'd picked up from magazines, etc. I thought it best to see what the general "safe ranges" were before I even began thinking about reloading a particular round.

[RogerDat]

I agree, but would add that for ANY manual...especially when starting out before you "get a feel" for what is appropriate. I have seen questionable data in almost every manual. will say that my personal experience is that Lee data tends to be pretty conservative and leans well towards the "safe" side. I have both the 48th and 49th editions of the Lyman, and especially when first starting out, I would double check against data from Alliant's and IMR's website and any other data I'd picked up from magazines, etc. I thought it best to see what the general "safe ranges" were before I even began thinking about reloading a particular round.

Thanks for the good advice which I will try to follow. Will take a bit to build up a library of references but I have found some powder sites have a lot of info online.
I guess it's just like the forum a lot of good information but not always the same good information since different people or companies have tried or used different approaches.

[mrblue]

Cabelas in Saginaw has had a nice supply of powder, primers and other items if needed. Also check out titan if you need dies. Also buy a reloading book, weather of knowledge, any book to start with with, abc of reloading to start and lees book too!

[RogerDat]

Cabelas in Saginaw has had a nice supply of powder, primers and other items if needed. Also check out titan if you need dies. Also buy a reloading book, weather of knowledge, any book to start with with, abc of reloading to start and lees book too!

Good to know another regional source for supplies. In the past we have gone to the Dundee store, never to the Saginaw one. Not much difference in driving distance now that I check it out.
Am on page 70 of the Lee manual and find it is worth reading so far just for the detailed explanation of what the dies are doing to the case or bullet during the process. But I do tend to be a target specific learner. I want to know how to do "x" so I read everything I can find about doing "x". I read the whole manual so I know where to look things up.