show me a paper patch group

[montana_charlie]

Since the title of the thread says 'show me a group' ... and since I was shooting today ... I have one to share that isn't too embarrassing.

This is five paper patched rounds at 300 yards which (under today's conditions) landed about seven inches higher than I expected.
But, it's the group that matters to me ... not the location.
(The random holes you see scattered around are 'splatter' from shooting at a gong which was just to the right of this target.)



CM

[SharpsShooter]

That's fine shooting at 300 yards Charlie. I didn't know you had to put paper on that end too… SheZzz



SS

[webradbury]

I agree...great shooting!!

[montana_charlie]

Thanks, boys. I just wish a guy could say it happens every time he goes out to shoot.

CM

[Lead pot]

I just looked at the groups I posted on the first page again. Those small groups I have shot many times more than I have posted. Yes they come by hard sometimes but when the light is right and my dimming lamps can center the sights they come a lot easier than the target with the big hole with 70 some shots fired without the use of a blow tube or wiping the bore after every shot fired. To me that 4" 70 shot group at 200 yards is more impressive too me than the 5-10 shot MOA groups or under MOA.
The hardest thing with the black powder rifles is to be able to shoot dirty with no fouling control, just load and shoot without fouling out. That 9 ring on that target is 4" and only 3 maybe 4 shots wandered out of the group.
Would I do this at a creedmoor match or a gong shoot----no, gong shoot maybe, most of those targets are 3-4 MOA in size.

[bigted]

lead pot ... I for one am impressed with some 70 shots into a 4 inch target at 200 yards. all with out the aid of any fouling control. do tell what your secret is for such a feat ... please? I don't know as I have never tried this but now I cant wait to give it a try. just wondering what you do for the fouling that is un avoidable with shooting black powder. heck this is hunting accuracy for sure out to the 200 yard mark. also am I to understand that this group is from paperpatched boolits as well?

thanks ahead of time for the info.

[Lead pot]

No secret Ted. I had a bunch of old loads I wanted to empty out the cases that were loaded with the original type Sharps bullets and my dirt wax & tallow lube I use.

[bigted]

no cookies? thanks LP

[Lead pot]

You wont shoot dirty with to many shots without using a lube wad Ted.

[country gent]

Dirt Wax??????

[Kenny Wasserburger]

I use a lube wad in a hunting load have done 17 shots in a row in -6 deg weather shot a fist sized group at 167 yards kneeling in 10 inches of snow, figured good enough for buffalo no blow or wipe. Rifle and Load have to date killed 4 buffalo, 2 by my own hand. Similar loads will shot well at shorter distances, however, try it at 800 to 1000 yards, you get 2 misses in every 10 record shots usually low in the dirt. Been there, done it, got the scars to Prove it, trusted some internet exspurts, it was my first real outing with Paper patch bullets in Competition. Undersize bullets shoot pretty well at hunting distances Target loads they are NOT, and dont let anyone convince you they are.

Try even a lube wad dirty shooting at 4500 Ft and 6 to 12% humidity with Wyoming Wind.

KW
The Lunger

[Lead pot]

I tried to warn you but you told me to get lost

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Yeah Kurt,

you did, Too other frequenters on the Shiloh Forum said that it would, Both Considered PP Guru's, Dan T also told me it would not work. Even with a single patch wiping which I tried there too, a .441 bullet in a .450 bore shoots OK, it does not shoot Great. Thick paper and undersize bullets are great shooting dirty for hunting.

KW
The Lunger

[Lead pot]

We learn what works best for ourself by learning from our mistakes and correcting our mistakes.

[Don McDowell]

OOOOHHH is that how we're spozed to learn.
Roughrider is going to Big timber on Monday for the 7* throat. I think that will make a ton of difference on how that rifle shoots, and going to revist the 16-1 Baco bullet when it gets back.

[bigted]

AWESOME thanks fellers.

[webradbury]

Kenny

The .444 bullets patched up to .452...do they have to be seated further into the case. Seems like the total diameter would prevent them from sliding into the bore without messing up the patch. Thanks to everyone for the advice by the way...I'm about to order some .444's to see how the work (before I drop a wad on a mold).

[Lead pot]

A .442" to .444" is pretty much the way to go for patching to bore diameter or a little over.
One thing to keep in mind is what paper is available for you to use. If your supply is coming from the Paper Mill. What little I have from them runs from .002" to .0021" thick. The .444" will take some thumb pressure to get the cartridge seated especially if your one that uses a blow tube and dont mop the chamber.
I prefer using a .444" but my throat has a .243" long funnel tapered lead this lets me seat a bullet patched to .002" over bore diameter.
It is good to order some bullets to give them a try before investing in a mould.
Keep in mind; order the bullet diameter for the paper you can get. Another thing to watch out for if your rifle has a .45-70 chamber and that is the bullet profile. Some like to load the .45-70 down because the recoil is a problem for them. This can get to be a problem for the sleek long nosed bullets like the money bullet that has a ogive as long as the bullet shank. I find that with a 1/18 ROT it gets a little unstable at extended ranges especially with the wind as it goes transonic.
Order several different kinds of nose shape from Sagebrush, Buffalo Arms, or John in Miles City, Mt., or some of the other custom casters that shoot these bullets at long range.
A bullet that shoots well at long range most generally will shoot well close, but a bullet that shoots well close might not shoot well at long range.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

I cast a .446 bullet and use Seth Cole Paper, the results, pretty much the past 2 years speak for themselves, wet patched after drying, the bullet is right at .4508 or so and takes a bit of thumb pressure. In my Bullbarrel Shiloh I use a .444 bullet as it is a bit on the tight side.

I use the Hyde Base and shorter patch also, I have shot the High PP score at Phoenix in both the Cup and the regional Winter Nationals, the past 2 years in a row, and this year, won both the scope Championship at Phoenix and Raton. You won't see me changing a single thing, the BACO Money PP bullet might be the best long Range Bullet in PP today in my Opinion. I have shot against the Danielson Prolate at Phoenix, in 2012, Beat it in the Cup and the Regional both, Not impressed with it. I played with one 3 years ago and again it does not hold up as well as the Money, at 1000 yards or even at a Mile. I spent a whole season on that Prolated nose, won't be doing that again either!

MVA's Jim Gier presented me a set of new Turrent Mounts on my old LR scope at Big Whiskey in Sept, with special blocks for Silhouette ranges and also a set of blocks for Creedmoor to play with. These blocks will keep the scope centered in the Rings at the longer Distances, Based on some old Come data we gave Jim years ago for our 45-110.

I did not have time to try it out before Nationals so used my other LR Scope for the Hell Bitch at Raton Sept 20-21, And well results speak for themselves.

I agree with Kurt a bullet that shoots good up close maynot always work at long range but a good LR bullet usually shoots darn good up close, My 5@200 record group was shot with my 800 yard 520 gr Money Bullet that runs 516.8 grs in 16-1 alloy.

Kenny W
The Lunger

[Don McDowell]

I haven't played with the 45's much in the last couple of years, but what little I have done shows me that the .444 bullets wrapped in the seth cole 8# paper shot much better than the same bullets in the paper mill 9#. I have a .442 mould 500 gr, from Accurate that is the same profile as the one I had them make in .434 for the 44-77, unfortunately what little I've messed with that bullet .442 bullet the rifle I had ideas of using it in just absolutely refuses to shoot it... Throws the thing way way, I mean way to the right of all the other loads, we're talking 16-20 feet to the right at 800 yds.. So I'll save that for a project for times when I get really bored and have nothing better to do than mess with the mudane 45 caliber rifles..