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Thread: Real Accuracy (2 moa or less) with Coated Rifle Bullets at 1800 fps or greater.

  1. #81
    Boolit Buddy
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    Finally got out to test some loads today, weather wasn't great constant rain but apart from a bit of trouble keeping targets standing I don't think it effected things to much.
    Mainly testing some HiTeked loads in my marlin 357 but managed to crohno and shoot a couple of groups with my 222.
    Rifle is a S&W 1500, howa manufactured so pretty much the same as a weatherby vangard, has some light pitting in the barrel, with J-word loads it likes, its a 1-1.25moa rifle.
    For years I've been using 22magnum projectiles and a light charge of AR2205 to duplicate 22mag performance accuracy with these is around 3moa but they are perfect for shooting bunnys under 100y without destroying them.
    Load tested today was
    Winchester case
    CCI small rifle primer
    AR 2205 powder
    Lyman 225438 44gr GC boolit, cast COWW + 2%, visually sorted for obvious defects, 2 coats HiTek red copper baked for 10min 200c, gas checked prior to coating and sized to .225 after the second coat.
    Oal 2.025"
    Cases were FL sizes and I don't own a 22 M die so projectiles seated as I would J-words.
    10gr AR2205 averaged 1898fps
    10.5gr AR2205 averaged 2019fps

    Targets were shot at 50m so by my calculations 2.34moa & 2.90moa, doesn't make the grade I know but equal to or slightly better than the 22mag projectiles at the same velocities in this rifle. I'm more than happy with the results, with a little work I think 2moa is achievable.
    Both targets had 4 under 2moa but one opened them up.
    Only 4 shots on the 10gr target 5th was just off the bottom measured before pulling the target and the widest measurement was across the 4 visible in the pic.

  2. #82
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I found when shooting my Encore and Contender pistols that horizonal string was mostly caused by a tilting of the firearm. I installed a Vortex bubble level and this did away with it when I watched it. Also shooting off the bi-pod is more likely to cause this. The lower the scope is to the bore line the better I think.

  3. #83
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    Popper:

    Groups are looking good. I am currently not able to get to the range because of the 4-6" of solid ice on the dirt road up the Mountain to the range. Hopefully we either get a good dump of snow soon to cover it and provide better conditions, or enough melt to get rid of the ice. Want to try and see if I can replicate some of your success, in .308. Not sure what experience you have with Bi-Pod use, but the following is for those who may not know how to properly shoot with a Bi-Pod:

    Shooting with a Bi-Pod does not necessarily equate to a "Stable" Platform. Often times, shooters will have more open groups when using a Bi-Pod compared to holding the rifle on a rest/rear Bag by hand, or with a properly used sling. Suggestions for using the Bi-Pod:

    (1) Load the Bi-Pod. Loading the Bi-Pod involves either a "Push" or a "Pull" loading.

    For Push Loading of Bi-Pod, with the rifle resting on the Bi-Pod, pull the Rifle firmly into your shoulder with the Trigger hand and the off Hand while pushing forward with the shoulder. All of the play (back and forth/left to right) movement should be taken out of the Bi-pod Support by pushing forward with the shoulder, then BRASS (Breathe Relax Aim Sight-Picture Squeeze).

    For Pull Loading of BiPod, with the rifle resting on the bipod, pull the Rifle firmly into your shoulder with the Trigger hand and the off Hand while pulling back slightly with the shoulder to take up any slack. All of the play (back and forth/left to right) movement should be taken out of the Bi-pod Support by pulling into the shoulder, then BRASS (Breathe Relax Aim Sight-Picture Squeeze).

    (2) Select a Bi-Pod that mounts to the rifle stock, not one that mounts to the Barrel. Barrel Mounted Bi-Pods are often found on the lesser priced AR platform Bi-Pods. A Bi-Pod mounted to the Barrel messes with the Harmonics of the rifle.

    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  4. #84
    Boolit Master TheDoctor's Avatar
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    Do you mean ASC in Houston? Man, if you are in Murphy, THAT will be a drive!

  5. #85
    Boolit Mold
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    Rifle: K31 scoped (scout); Range: 50 yards, bench rest
    Boolit: Lee 155 gr., blue PC, Hornady GC, sized to .310" after coating
    Alloy: close to lyman #2 @ 14 BHN (WW with some SuperHard and Tin added)
    Charge: 20 grains of AA5744; COL 2.745"
    Average velocity 1800 fps, best 5 shot group gave me 1.5 MOA, see below

    Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by sd61 View Post
    Rifle: K31 scoped (scout); Range: 50 yards, bench rest
    Boolit: Lee 155 gr., blue PC, Hornady GC, sized to .310" after coating
    Alloy: close to lyman #2 @ 14 BHN (WW with some SuperHard and Tin added)
    Charge: 20 grains of AA5744; COL 2.745"
    Average velocity 1800 fps, best 5 shot group gave me 1.5 MOA, see below



    Click image for larger version. 

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    Unless I am terribly mistaken a 1.5 " group at 50 yards equals 3 MOA at 100 yards.
    Courage is being scared to death-but saddling up anyway. John Wayne

    A man has to do what a man has to do. John Wayne

  7. #87
    Boolit Buddy Faret's Avatar
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    Looks like a .75 moa group at 50 yards acording to the target scoring box. Or less.
    Last edited by Faret; 02-24-2014 at 09:22 PM.

  8. #88
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    Thanks for the correction I thought the blocks were 1 inch.
    Courage is being scared to death-but saddling up anyway. John Wayne

    A man has to do what a man has to do. John Wayne

  9. #89
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    That is terrific and thanks for posting. PC boolit aside, that is dang good shooting with any projectile, assuming it was 7.5x55 in a K31 rifle.
    Last edited by Hang Fire; 03-02-2014 at 04:24 PM.

  10. #90
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    Cheetah:

    I did some research on hardness of Powder Coat paint; and what I came up with is that Powder Coat may be ~ 26 to 28 BHN. I derive that from the table on Lead Hardness using "Pencil Test" as derived from this site, plus the Sherwin Williams Data Sheet on their Powder Coatings (Not able to locate Data sheets of other PC providers listing their Pencil Test Hardness).

    Sherwin Williams lists their PC at a Pencil Hardness of 2H. The 2H pencil hardness in the table indicates a BHN of 26 to 28.

    The full Sherwin Williams Data Sheet on their Powder Coat paints is attached as a PDF.

    Attachment 98566 Click image for larger version. 

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    I believe that those who experience poor accuracy with Powder Coated soft lead, do so because the underlayment of lead is weaker than the Powder Coat, and it gives way in the rifling despite the harder Powder coat, but the hardness of the Powder Coat stops any potential leading in the barrel. Think of the Earths crust rotating over a molten core.
    Last edited by MUSTANG; 03-04-2014 at 06:35 PM.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  11. #91
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by MUSTANG View Post
    Cheetah:

    I did some research on hardness of Powder Coat paint; and what I came up with is that Powder Coat may be ~ 26 to 28 BHN. I derive that from the table on Lead Hardness using "Pencil Test" as derived from this site, plus the Sherwin Williams Data Sheet on their Powder Coatings (Not able to locate Data sheets of other PC providers listing their Pencil Test Hardness).

    Sherwin Williams lists their PC at a Pencil Hardness of 2H. The 2H pencil hardness in the table indicates a BHN of 26 to 28.

    The full Sherwin Williams Data Sheet on their Powder Coat paints is attached as a PDF.

    Attachment 98566 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Hardness Testing with Pencils - Table for BHN conversion - Compressed.jpg 
Views:	153 
Size:	49.8 KB 
ID:	98567


    I believe that those who experience poor accuracy with Powder Coated soft lead, do so because the underlayment of lead is weaker than the Powder Coat, and it gives way in the rifling despite the harder Powder coat, but the hardness of the Powder Coat stops any potential leading in the barrel. Think of the Earths crust rotating over a molten core.
    Very interesting theory. If true it would indicate that quenched/harder alloys will generally perform better in general with PC.

    I would love to see a PC boolit be fired with one of those jillion frame per second cameras.

  12. #92
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I wonder why that would be the case with PC, and not with PP?
    Hard to figure.
    Precision in the wrong place is only a placebo.

  13. #93
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    Tim you still do have to match the velocity with a P/P boolit.
    lead will try to set-back if it ain't supported properly.
    think on that for a second,,,, it will lead you back to the whole mechanical fit thing.

  14. #94
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    If I am reading these last 4 posts correctly. I am to deduce that for any boolit to succeed particularly a rifle boolit the lead hardness has to be close to the hardness of powder coat paint??? To prevent the pp from wearing through or collapsing?? I would appreciate you gentlemen's knowledge. I know this is totally new territory and all I have been able to shoot (due to weather) so far is 45 acp which works great.
    Courage is being scared to death-but saddling up anyway. John Wayne

    A man has to do what a man has to do. John Wayne

  15. #95
    Boolit Buddy
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    Son shot a 1.67moa group on the weekend with my 45/70 only 1500fps so I won't worry about pictures but a few interesting points.
    Same load with conventional lube has shot 2-3moa for me consistently, HiTek load was a nice round group, may have been a bit of luck but it obviously doesn't harm accuracy at these velocity/pressures.
    Just for interest I sized some .458 instead of my normal .459 results were on par with conventional lube sized similar, 4.25moa group that was all over the place.
    Regardless of lube/coating looks like boolit fit is still the key to success.

  16. #96
    Boolit Man
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    FINALLY!

    Got lucky today while testing a new mold - RCBS 130 SP Hornady GC - weighs about 140gr using air cooled WW - PC with PBTP Super Durable Wet Black - 400 deg. for 20 min - sized to .309

    16.0 IMR-4227 - Velocity is 1825fps - managed a 5-shot 3/4" group @ 50yds after 5 previous shots with lighter load

    First time this rifle has really shot a supersonic load decently - this rifle has not seen a J-word bullet yet

    Snow is finally melting here so looking forward to testing at 100yd soon.

    Next test will be comparing with and without GC

    300 Blackout - 16" CMMG pistol gas barrel - groups 5" higher than Lee 230 Subsonic zero @ 50yd
    Last edited by supersniper; 03-30-2014 at 12:12 AM.

  17. #97
    Boolit Buddy Mike Hughes's Avatar
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    Noe 311365

    308 Win, 1:10 twist, All powder paints mirror blue dry tumble. COWW water dropped from mold and wd again after coating. Sized to .311 x .306, only fired one round across the chrono= 1876 fps.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Mike Hughes; 04-01-2014 at 06:46 PM. Reason: added caliber and twist

  18. #98
    Boolit Buddy KYShooter73's Avatar
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    No pics, but got a 1.4 inch 10 shot group at 100 this weekend. WD'd COWW + 2% Sn, HF Red, baked 17 mins, and WD'd again. Lee 312-155 aluminum gas checked and sized .311, fired from 14.5 inch pistol gas barrel. 15.7gn Winchester 296. 2.100 OAL. Didn't chrony because this seems to be the sweet spot, but it should easily beat 1800fps.
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.”
    ― George Orwell, 1984

  19. #99
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    Kyshooter73,
    I am presuming a 300 blackout?
    Courage is being scared to death-but saddling up anyway. John Wayne

    A man has to do what a man has to do. John Wayne

  20. #100
    Boolit Buddy KYShooter73's Avatar
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    Yup. First time I have been able to PC since December, and I have been working on a powder/load/length my barrel likes all winter using 2 coats of nasty alox. The PC shoots just as good in this load as the alox without the stinky sticky smokie boolits.
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.”
    ― George Orwell, 1984

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check