Real Accuracy (2 moa or less) with Coated Rifle Bullets at 1800 fps or greater.

[pastorcurtis]

PS: With the same bullet and powder combination in a scoped 308, I was regularly hitting a 10 in plate at 350 yards. By regularly, I mean I was able to call all the shots and hits were about 50% of the time. Seems like a good boolit/powder combination.

[Springfield0612]

1. 100 yards.
2. .308 win Mossberg MVP Flex. 18.5" bull barrel.
3. SCOPE: Vortex Crossfire II 3-9x40
4. BULLET: 163 grain Cast lead bullet (NOE 30XCB FN) weights sorted to 163.2-163.8 grns. Shot in order from .2-.8. Thus group was in the .6-.8 group.
5. BHN: 15 air cooled
6.PC METHOD:Tumble PC(NO AS BB's), HF red, 1 coat 20 min @ 400 deg
7. Brass LC '11 brass (1x fired FL resized), trimmed with Lee deluxe power trimer & die.
8. PRIMERS: wolf Large rifle
9. Powder: IMR 3031 30 grains EST. ~1900 fps as per Lyman cast bullet manual.
10. Equipment: reloaded on Lee classic turret press. Station 1 Lyman M-die. Station 2 Lee rifle charge die w/ riser and auto drum thrower. Station 3 Lyman seating die (no crimp) Station 4 Lee collet crimp die, set to 1 full turn.
11. Gas checks: from guy here on forum. Aluminum .014" thick sized with Lee .309 pass thru sizing die opened up to .3105. GC seated by hand PC'd then sized.

This group was 3 shots. Bore was cleaned prior to begining of the shooting session. the group pictured was shots 73-76 out of 91 total. Bore was hot! Outside temp was 65 deg F light tail wind (moving slightly left to right 3-5mph) and raining (drizzle)


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[Springfield0612]

1. 100 yards.
2. .308 win Mossberg MVP Flex. 18.5" bull barrel.
3. SCOPE: Vortex Crossfire II 3-9x40
4. BULLET: 163 grain Cast lead bullet (NOE 30XCB FN) weights not sorted
5. BHN: 15 air cooled
6.PC METHOD:Tumble PC(NO AS BB's), HF red, 1 coat 20 min @ 400 deg
7. Brass LC '11 brass (2x fired neck sized), trimmed with Lee deluxe power trimer & die.
8. PRIMERS: Federal Large rifle
9. Powder: IMR 3031 30 grains EST. ~1800-1900 fps as per Lyman cast bullet manual.
10. Equipment: reloaded on Lee classic turret press. Station 1 Lyman M-die.*** Station 2 Lee rifle charge die w/ funnel, weights were hand weighed using digital scale to within .01 grains*** Station 3 Lyman seating die (no crimp) Station 4 Lee collet crimp die, set to 1 full turn.
11. Gas checks: from guy here on forum. Aluminum .014" thick sized with Lee .309 pass thru sizing die opened up to .3105. GC seated by hand PC'd then sized.

These groups were 5 shots (group number on the target). Bore was dirty (~150 rounds dirty from prior range session) prior to begining of the shooting session. the groups pictured were ladder test groups. Group #5 was 29 grains of 3031 #8 was 31 grains of 3031. 30-45 seconds between shots. 5 min between groups. Outside temp was 75 deg F tail wind (moving slightly left to right 8-12 mph)


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[Bama]

Did you start with the collet crimp die? If you didn't, did you get fliers without the collet crimp? I'm trying 6mm at higher velocities and have 1 or 2 fliers using 2 thou tension on necks. Have just about traced down to neck tension and very interested in what you have found.

[popper]

LR308 carbine 4x18 Nikon.
165gr Hornady GC HF red 2400 fps.
LC07 brass loaded several times. Not trimmed, turned or annealed. CCI LRP. Weigh a couple drops and go load with the RCBS thingy.
RCBS SB die, Lyman 307 expander spud. Lee 3085 sizer. FCD crimp to just remove flare.
I was testing 30/30 and it was windy so 50 yds but the 308 was lonely. 1st was high right ? IIRC I loaded the mag 3x. Vertical on left is load variation or more likely ME. Not seeing flyers, even @ 100, best I can tell, using the FCD.
Attachment 196285
From a while ago, carbine @ 100
Attachment 198738Attachment 198739

[nekshot]

seems to me you guys get it figured out! I wonder if any one can say with clear proof that PC made groubs open up? Boy would a thread like that pull the computer experts out!

[Wolftracker]

I am doing just that. Actually, I cast, re-shape the bullets in my point former, coat, size and then lightly swage again to make them close to perfect. I can alter the cast bullets into various shapes, from a conventional looking flat base spitzer to a pointed rebated boattail. So far, .223 in a 1/9 twist AR at around 2500 fps is so-so at 100yds. with the boattails. Not good enough yet to take pictures of and post. 170 gr boattails from an FN PBR in 308 show more promise. My testing time and procedures kind of leave alot to be desired. So far, good enough to shoot a deer or minute of gopher at 100yds but no match winners to bother taking pictures of.

[MyFlatline]

1. dirty bore, no fouling shots
2. Powder coat, tumble method over the GC, bake 400 for 13 minutes
3. .311 cast at 165gr., custom no groove mold from Accurate, water quenched WW
4. IMR 4064. 34 gr. est 2000 fps
5. Marlin 308 mx with a 19" barrel
6. Have not had a jacketed group less than 4 inches in factory ammo or hand loads.
7. Copper Gas Check
8. 5 shot group
9. 1 group, have cast up some more to try now that I know they will work.

First was a 3 shot group with the flyer, followed up with the last two later.

[30CalTy]

1. 3 fouling shots
2. PC: HF red, dump and bake on a wire rack, 13min @400F.
3. Bullet: Ideal 257312, 2:1 COWW to SOWW. No culling. Sized .257 after PC
4. Powder/vel: alliant 2400; 1960fps
5. Rifle: Savage 110; 257 Rob't Ackley Improved. 26"
6. J loads shoot consistently inside 1 1/4MoA and routinely down into 5/8.
7. Hornady GC. sized/crimped 257 after PC
8. 5 groups of 5: 1", 2.5", 1", 3", 1.5"
9. Number of groups before accuracy deteriorates: ?

I went through the same batch o' bullets and culled them (after PC but before GC). Hoping that will get rid of the fliers. It WANTS to shoot tight little wads. We'll see.

[popper]

Had some comments that my groups would open up past 100 so last week i got to try it. No bull on the stell, BDC reticle on 2nd circle down. 2" 3 shot from 200 yds. same ammo from previous post, #265. Nikon ballistics says 1750 at the target. Other shots are sighters from my buddy + 1 7 mag.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/atta...2&d=1508612147

[Wreck-n-Crew]

If my research is correct the only way a bullet will have worse accuracy at distance is if the bullet becomes unstable in flight. In order for that to happen something would have to be wrong with either the SD (Dynamic Stability) or SG (Gyroscopic Stability) affecting the SD. If its the dynamic stability (SD) is causing an issue it may be its bullets design/Profile or imperfections in the casting and sizing process. IF its the SG its most likely the weight and twist rate match causing stability issues at lower velocities.

Proper sizing and even coating on the PC bullets increase the cast bullets SD. Twist rate and bullet weight matching cover the SG side of things. Doesn't sound so hard but the SD side of bullet stability is a little harder to nail down if you ask me. That's also why I believe things are getting on track with more people getting such good groups in this thread and the other one.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Just to add the recent addition of the 6.5 Creedmoor proved the value of proper twist rates and accuracy at distance. The big difference between the Creedmoor and a 260 Remington. Virtually the same capabilities if they had the same twist rates

Imagine how the 270 Win would have faired years ago in competition with match grade bullets and a 1/9 twist? Keeping in mind too much twist can affect stability too but a 1/9 twist on a 270 with a 130 gr match bullet really matches up better for good SG numbers and the 270 is a flatter shooter than a 30-06.

[popper]

It's the (cringe) RPM threshold theory. I add Cu to the alloy which appears to extend the threshold a lot. It's also well above the transonic region . Going to try 300 next time. with the long upper that does 2700 fps.

[Larry Gibson]

wreck-n-crew

Gyroscopic and dynamic stability are completely different from the adverse affects of exceeding the RPM Threshold. Most often bullets exceeding the RPM Threshold which are traveling in an increasing helical arc as the range increases are both gyroscopic and dynamically stable.

[MUSTANG]

The target spotter is 3/4 inch across. Group was shot 4 weeks ago with temps at 50 degrees, clear sky, 10MPH Cross winds.

Attachment 210661



1. number of fouling shots if any - No Fouling Shots.
2. coating used, how applied; time and temperature of cure - HF Red Powder Coat, Tumble Lubed, 20 Minute bake at 400 degrees.
3. Bullet used, alloy, and sized dia. - any culling criteria used (eg bullets weighed to +/- .2 gr) - RCBS 165 Sil, 96% Lead, 3% Antimony, 1% Tin. Water dropped immediately after pulling Powder Coated Bullets from oven.
4. powder used and estimated or measured velocity - 2400 Powder, ~ 1950 Feet Per Second.
5. Rifle used and caliber - Remington 700 ADL Varmint Heavy Barrel 26" Long, 308 Winchester 6-24X Scope.
6. How accuracy compares to jacketed and/or traditionally lubed in the gun - Not quite as good as best Cast Boolit w/Carnuba Red lube accuracy.
7. GC data - Aluminum Gas Check made from AmeriMax .014 aluminum.
8. number of shots in the group - 10 shot groups
9. Number of groups before accuracy deteriorates. - not known.

[popper]

2400 Powder, ~ 1950 Feet Per Second. There is the problem. Try some slower powder and Hornady GCs, annealed. I don't weigh cases, boolits, trickle powder or any other stuff. So far been using HF red in the ARs. Cu in the alloy really helps also.

[Splatter]

.... Imagine how the 270 Win would have faired years ago in competition with match grade bullets and a 1/9 twist? Keeping in mind too much twist can affect stability too but a 1/9 twist on a 270 with a 130 gr match bullet really matches up better for good SG numbers and the 270 is a flatter shooter than a 30-06.

The cartridge name you are looking for is the 6.5-'06. It still wins the occasional match, and its ballistic twin, the 6.5-.284 is no stranger to the winner's circle.

[Bama]

nice shooting

[res45]

Well I'll just throw this in the mix for what it's worth. I've been coating pistol bullets for a couple years now with excellent results in 9mm and 45 ACP however the coated rifle bullets I've just started to play with so I don't have much development under my belt but hopefully this spring I can do some testing in earnest. I have plenty of bullets from 160 to 215 grs. ready to go it's just a matter of getting some good weather and time to get out in the field.

Anyways this is a load I worked up to so far in my 1933 Tula 91/30 my brother sold me this past fall it's never had a jacketed bullet fired in it since he bought the rifle, still had the $100 tag tied to the trigger guard. I just did a little accuracy work on the stock to give the receiver a firm bedding. I have to say this group I shot at 50 yds. off a sandbag with iron sights, it pretty much how I do all my load test as I don't have a range or area near me that allow me to stretch it out.

Rifle


Target, the little red sticker is about the size of a dime.



1. number of fouling shots if any
None

2. coating used, how applied; time and temperature of cure
Local PC shop OD Green shake & Bake, 400 degrees for 20 Min.

3. Bullet used, alloy, and sized dia. - any culling criteria used (eg bullets weighed to +/- .2 gr)
Lee 170 gr. RNFP, WQWW after baking, sized .313" only culled visual defects.

4. powder used and estimated or measured velocity
First test loads using 33 grs. H4895 1736 frs. average 5 shots on the chrono.

5. Rifle used and caliber
1933 Tula 91/30 7.62 x 54r

6. How accuracy compares to jacketed and/or traditionally lubed in the gun
I have never shot any jacketed bullets in this rifle, probably never will. First test groups with Lee 185 gr. RN WQWW LARS 2500+


7. GC data
Gator 30 cal. copper checks

8. number of shots in the group
5 shots each target.

9. Number of groups before accuracy deteriorates.
Hard to say I usually take around 50 rds. of a test load over to my buddies house and I shoot a couple groups and get what I need then everyone else wants to get in on the actions so they shoot the rest but in general the good shooter can shoot pretty nice groups as well so I would say the loads I post at least hold up through 50 rds. with no deviation in accuracy. I have to say these first test loads are by no means a stopping point. I have lots of wiggle room on increasing the load density and I will be testing identical loads with PC and traditional lubed bullets.

[414gates]

416 grain lead, BHN 22, , 2 coats PC, sized to .416.

67 grains S355, CCI 250 primer, 84.2mm AOL.

Ruger Alaskan 416, leupold VX1 3-9 scope, range 50 meters.

Velocity estimated at 2000 fps, 68 grains of powder averaged 2060 fps.

First two holes on paper were with scope adjustment.







Custom mould made by Mike Neumann.