Real Accuracy (2 moa or less) with Coated Rifle Bullets at 1800 fps or greater.

[charlie b]

New bullet. Same rifle as above. .308

Accurate 311-210E bullet. 211gn. Hardball alloy. Sized .309 before and after coating. Gas checks applied before coating. Eastwood Ford Light Blue shake and bake.

This was the first load development series. Not too bad for first time with a bullet.



Note that the sights were not changed for any of these. If I overlaid all but the 26.0gn load then it made a group of 23 rounds in 1.5". That is with a change of almost 1 full grain of powder charge and a bit over 100fps extreme spread. Not bad.

Next outing I will up the velocity a bit and see where it goes.

[popper]

Took the lr308 today along with 30/30. Did OK @ 50 (100 is hard on the legs) and need freehand practice just front sandbag to take the weight. Deprimed 65 cases so that's what I did and shoulder isn't sore. 165gr PC 2400 fps. Alternating with 78 30/30 (fun).

Edit: cleaned it this morning, nothing but residue. Scope was loose! Moved to the turrets! Counted holes,must be 25 or so in the black. I was also trying quick followup and quick mount practice - most were not fliers.

[Vettepilot]

I really liked the concept of this thread when I stumbled across it. It would really be cool if someone would summarize what it takes exactly, in a real world sense, to achieve the OP's goals.

So, what are the steps necessary to get 2 moa performance or better at 1800+ fps at 100 yards with cast boolits? What is most important? (Cast boolit specific, with all normal good loading practices such as case prep, powder measuring, etc. already assumed.)

A post such as I suggest should be worthy of being made a "sticky" if it is based on proven results...

Thanks,
Vettepilot

[charlie b]

It probably should be a sticky somewhere.

Since 99% of the information is the same as for lubed cast bullets then it should probably be cross posted. I'd suggest starting with someone like Larry Gibson. Have him write up a list of items that he uses for his competition rifles/bullets.

Powder coating is just a substitution for the lube.

So, to get accurate rifle bullets first your rifle has to be capable of it. Followed by 'normal' methods of reloading for accuracy.

Next is proper fit of bullet to your rifle.

Then it is to make the best cast bullet you can make. Good fill out. No obvious flaws, especially the base. Weigh and sort.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

The OP's target is certainly impressive. So far I have only shot rifle cast out to 50 yds. But I get groups close to moa with both Unique and 2400. I am tumble lubing a gas checked boolit. Bore remains very clean even after 30 rounds.

[popper]

I use 1/2% copper and no tin in my rifle alloy. 4% Sb and heat treat from the PC oven - cook for 1 hr. on a hot plate. GC of course. All my rifle moulds are FP slick sided with a slight groove to accumulate sized alloy.

[Vettepilot]

It probably should be a sticky somewhere.

Since 99% of the information is the same as for lubed cast bullets then it should probably be cross posted. I'd suggest starting with someone like Larry Gibson. Have him write up a list of items that he uses for his competition rifles/bullets.

Powder coating is just a substitution for the lube.

So, to get accurate rifle bullets first your rifle has to be capable of it. Followed by 'normal' methods of reloading for accuracy.

Next is proper fit of bullet to your rifle.

Then it is to make the best cast bullet you can make. Good fill out. No obvious flaws, especially the base. Weigh and sort.

Yes, as I said, a cast boolit at speed with 2 moa or better accuracy, assuming all normal accuracy loading principles already in place. In other words, all accuracy case prep done and/or very high quality brass, proper high accuracy loading techniques with weighed charges, less than .003" bullet runout, bullet sized to .001" over groove size, etc., etc.

What are the other specifics necessary and important to achieve 2 moa or better at 1800+ fps with cast bullets, summarized in a single post?

On another, but related note, I was studying an old RCBS manual on cast boolits the other day. It said that cast boolit sizing greatly softens the boolit, and greatly decreases accuracy. I've not read this nor heard this anywhere before. Is this modernly disproved information?

Thanks!
Vettepilot

[charlie b]

Then, yes, not much more needs to be done. As I mentioned, it is all about making a cast bullet with no defects and making the bullet fit the rifle.

All of the bullets I have fired in my rifle have been sized, simply because I am using gas checks and/or powder coating. Does the alloy soften due to sizing? I don't know. What I do know is if I use the proper lube or powder coat then my sized bullets do not lead the bore of my rifle.

[Tripplebeards]

I shot these the other day fist time trying cast loads at 100 yards with my marlin 336 35 Rem along with its 5 pound plus trigger. I took out 7 different powder and load combos to try with the HP. I also had a bunch of lee 200 grain solid loads to try. The top group was using our 200 grain HP group buy boolit. It was clear PC and GC with 50/50 alloy sized .0025” over groove diameter.




I took off a few weeks of shooting to turkey hunt. In the process i lightened the trigger to 2 1/4 pounds and re tested the 40 grain varget load that shot MOA. Here is the first three shot 100 yard re test group with 40 grains of varget. It chronographed at 2100 FPS...



I tried six other powders and loads along with it and found another powder my gun likes. Here’s another 100 yard group with a max book load of H4895...



Here’s the boolit I was using...





The first time around I loaded them (the top photo with clear pc boolits) with a flat seater pusher I customized. It widened and flattened the noses out a bit. The second loading I used the original conical pusher that RCBS polished and sent as a replacement. It kept the noses in the original shape. Imo they are longer and more aerodynamic this way. The groups showed it as well. I’m sure they will Cycle and feed better with a narrower nose as well. I have many guns but never been a fan of the lever or much hands in time till the other day. I had a 336 chambered in 30-30 when I was 13 and had a little buck fever. I put a poor shot on a wall mounter buck and it was never recovered. I blamed the lever gun on my buck fever and poor shot placement at the time. I also bought a 45-70 guide gun the first year they came out in 95’...I got sucked into Marlin’s marketing hype with the bear next to it in their catalog. I went to Canada with some 1800 FPS 405 grain Winchester factory loads bear hunting. I have video of two black bear that i shot between the shoulders at a little over 100 yards. Both never recovered or left blood trails. The boolit was so slow going across the screen you can see it enter both bear. The following year I went back to Canada and got it done on a 7’6” bear with a 19 3/16” skull using an arrow! I’ve owned this gun 35 Rem for about 15 years and only shot it once or twice. I’ve loaded up J words and did some ladder testing with it the best j word load was 1.1” with a 180 grain speed hot core around 2350 FPS...with the 5 pound trigger. Im going to take the “hex” off and harvest a deer with a lever this year. I did harvest a couple deer with my other 35 Rem 7600 last year using j words so I know the caliber drops deer out to 140 yards...so my lever excuses will running out.

I’m finding cast is more accurate in my lever gun then j words. I’ll have to reload some more up and go try them at 200 yards and see if the group still holds together. Just read the OP’s post...no fowling shot taken. I loaded them at 2.415”. My max OAL is 2.462” with the HP boolit. Remington cases from the same lot, Remington 9 1/2 primer, cases trimmed to minimum after every sizing, and crimped with a lee factory crimp collet die. My case neck shoulders are bumped back .002” for minimum head space. Alloy is 50/50 ac COWW and pure lead flooring with 2% pewter added. BH measures 10.5. Smokes clear pc tumble coated. All were weighed and separated within one grain after dropped out of the mold before PCing and GC applied. When slugged my gun it measured .357”. I polished out a lee sizer to .3595” and use it to size my boolits in this gun. I shot three of the 40 grain varget HP’s through my beta chronograph the other day. They measured 2089, 2057, and 2069. Average 2080fps out of my 20” barrel...I’m rounding it up and calling it 2100FPS to figure out trajectory on published graphs on ballistic drops and energy transfer. I never tested the load above 40.2 grains and there were zero Pressure signs.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

That is impressive.

[Vettepilot]

I use 1/2% copper and no tin in my rifle alloy. 4% Sb and heat treat from the PC oven - cook for 1 hr. on a hot plate. GC of course. All my rifle moulds are FP slick sided with a slight groove to accumulate sized alloy.

How are you adding/alloying the copper, if you don't mind sharing the details.

Thanks,
Vettepilot