Real Accuracy (2 moa or less) with Coated Rifle Bullets at 1800 fps or greater.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I believe that any thing worth doing, is worth doing right.
Why waste gas and tire wear and my time going to the range with a load I know isn't sub-moa out to 200yds?

just me...

Rich

[P Flados]

I am not there yet, but a lot closer than I was.

Considering I am only using a Contender and considering my rest sits on a wobbly plastic tray at an indoor range, I am starting to get close to the 2 MOA.

Velocity is probably short of 1800 fps, but I am betting it is pretty respectable for a 30 cal 173 gr boolit from a 14" Contender. Primers actually still look like I could go a little faster with the current powder, I 4227, and I do have some small quantities of slower stuff. Again I may not reach the "goal" of this thread, but I expect to be knocking at the door so to speak.

Check out my thread on checkless Naked Nose PC boolits

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ted-C309-170-F

[jcren]

On the base question, has anyone tried using NOE'S base leveling tool? Designed to deburr/slightly bevel bases to make gas checks go on easier, I have wondered about using it to uniform base edges on pc'd bullets. Slight bevel shouldn't effect leading.

[OS OK]

I expect this will be a very short thread but here goes.

I have been following all the coated threads and frankly they have become onerous. So the purpose of this thread is very specific. The only posts should be of coated bullets that have given groups no larger than 2 moa for 5 shots or more.

This is being done to provide a "Cliff notes" for coated bullet performance (this comes from a well known poster who made that comment).

Posts of "purty" rifle bullets without group data are discouraged - people looking for performance do not care how "purty" they look. Pictures of ugly bullets that meet the 2 moa threshold are OK. Pictures of "purty" bullets that shoot are OK too.

Many people do not want to post load data due to liability concerns. If you feel this way, it is suggested that you post the powder used and velocity data. If you do not have a chronograph, post "estimated" velocity; as we can work back to get the likely charge weight. Good data will be:

1. number of fouling shots if any
2. coating used, how applied; time and temperature of cure
3. Bullet used, alloy, and sized dia. - any culling criteria used (eg bullets weighed to +/- .2 gr)
4. powder used and estimated or measured velocity
5. Rifle used and caliber
6. How accuracy compares to jacketed and/or traditionally lubed in the gun
7. GC data
8. number of shots in the group
9. Number of groups before accuracy deteriorates.

By limiting the thread this way we can provide a repository of "what works". People new to coatings are going to ask "stupid" questions and most will not wade through two or three 80+ page threads. So let's have a thread that is succinct and to the point.

Although my opinion is that PC will prevail, should HT users find a coating that works, this will be a great boost to their marketing efforts. Again, no "fluff"; and keep useless banter down. Just the facts.

I originally thought that 2200 fps should be the demarcation point but dialed it down to 1800 so some of the "thumpers" can participate.

What works!!!

Don Verna

Absolutely unbelievable…"I thought finally! Were going to get some hard evidence here one way or the other. Stats that are useful. Short, sweet and to the point!"

I'm convinced now more than before…"People click in at the last post and join in the thread with meaningless 'dribble'! Just to make a comment, mine is bigger, well…mine is longer, mine is purple and smooth, mine is new and etceteras until I had to give up somewhere around the 40's on posts!"
What has happened to this forum…or what's wrong with people? I don't know the question to ask.

"What a frustrating end to a post with all the right intentions to begin with! I hope you don't quit trying to compare."

Rant is over…'who cares anyway'? …OS OK

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Boolit Master,

time and materials are always the question. I have one of those concentricity gauges, and a 1/10,000ths readout dial indicator.

Cast or jacketed, it pretty much removes all doubt about your casting and loading ability.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Popper,

if your accuracy standards differ from mine, that would be your issue. As long as you are content to spend hours casting/sizing/powder coating/loading ammunition and shooting; and happy with your results that is all that matters.

[dverna]

There have been a handful of people who have achieved accuracy results with coated rifle bullets. Some, I believe, have stopped posting due to frustration with the anti coating crowd. In fact, I have been accused of being an anti.....but such is life on this forum at times.

If some can do it, it follows that coatings can be made to work.

On another site, an ex member (who has his act together) gave coated bullets a try and seems to have abandoned them. He was not able to match the accuracy he could achieve with lube. Maybe he did not try hard enough, but I know his standards are much higher than 2 moa at 1800. Or for his situation, there are no advantages to coatings so it was not worth going further.

The purpose of this thread was to establish a repository of information for those interested in accurate powder coated rifle loads. Although I requested authorization a long time ago to delete posts that do not contribute to that goal, the moderators believed it would offend some posters. So, as in so many other threads, there is a lot of junk to wade through to find a few salient facts.

One would think that that a topic like this would make a sticky. But either the paucity of results or lack of interest have shown otherwise. Another thread started by Jon B has also died.

I hope as more people work with coatings the art of achieving accuracy with coatings can be understood. It is with understanding what works, and why, that progress will be made.

[P Flados]

For those that want an easy way to Idaho's post:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...itial-findings

After review, I will add that Idaho seems to be going at it it with "top of the line" technique for assembling rounds.

Hopefully he will reach his target and will share more about actual coating application.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I'm still hoping to see some good success come from this thread. I have just successfully shot a good group using a jacketed bullet through my 270 win. That makes me want to grab a mold and give it a shot.

However i know that the bullet is what will matter in the end. No doubt in my mind that a good bullet that is cast with precision and equal in weight is half the battle. Not sure i can even get there without having a mold made and weighing my mixtures to insure uniformity.

Then there is insuring PC doesn't mess it all up by not coating evenly enough.

My pistol pc bullets are just fine. But i am wondering if its worth it to invest in a special mold, if i even half to, and can i coat them and size them to be rifle accurate?

Any updates?.......just hoping...



Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

[dverna]

Wreck,

If you have just recently shot a good group using jacketed bullets, you are a long way from trying to get good groups with cast bullets. The other challenge you face is that the smaller calibers tend to be more affected by small variations in bullet consistency.

Others familiar with the .270 can suggest a good mold to start with. Do a search, or start a thread. My opinion is that traditional lubes offer an easier path for accurate cast bullets. White Label 2500 or Carnube Red would be good choices at the higher velocities.

Many will send you a handful of cast bullets to experiment with before you invest in a mold.

Good luck

Don

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Wreck,

If you have just recently shot a good group using jacketed bullets, you are a long way from trying to get good groups with cast bullets. The other challenge you face is that the smaller calibers tend to be more affected by small variations in bullet consistency.

Others familiar with the .270 can suggest a good mold to start with. Do a search, or start a thread. My opinion is that traditional lubes offer an easier path for accurate cast bullets. White Label 2500 or Carnube Red would be good choices at the higher velocities.

Many will send you a handful of cast bullets to experiment with before you invest in a mold.

Good luck

Don

That's what i was thinking. That's why i mentioned the mold, mixture and powder coating.

Actually shot more than a few of my loads with accuracy. Just started 270 reduced loads and am getting surprising accuracy at 1650fps.

As far as using cast pc rifle loads, my time is limited between work, casting, reloading, and range time. Not to mention 2 kids. Taking on a challenge right now would be beyond my ability to take on new challenges not yet perfected.

I would be happy to contribute materials until my time gets a little more free. I do have a .308 mold, powder coat. I have some lead but its not real hard. I've since moved to soft lead for pistol loads because i get better accuracy with pc.

Ill be following. Thanks for the time guys and the responses.

Wreck









Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

[tjones]

Found this on the sister blog. Seems a real effort to test P_C boolits.

I am really not happy with a recent three day test of coated high velocity bullets which when cast were as perfect as can be expected. Bullets supplied to me seem to perform better and ranges from 20 yards to 50 yards. I spent hours normalizing neck tension and sizing diameters and run out of the castings. They came to me coated with bubba blue paint from Prismatic llc. With impact points different from jacketed factory loadings grouping was satisfactory and holes appeared stable at all distances. I was not surprised.

Taking these same raw castings and using the shake and bake method that I proved to be an accurate load I proceeded to load as jacketed rounds. I learned the the polymers are quite stable in a very large range of temperatures as the oven did creep to over 500F at times. I further learned that any lead alloy is far weaker in tensile strength than these cured polymers.

The first shot being a fouling shot went very high. The next shots were more like a array of buck shot. Factory ammo fired impacted at the point of aim with a group not different than i expected. With a shoulder feeling like hamburger I decided immediately that if I wanted high velocity I 'll stick to jacketed rounds.

Cleaning the rifle which had no signs of leading at all, I discovered what seemed to be a waxy residue on a clean bore patch. My mentor indicated that at the extreme pressure and friction I could have broken a few bonds here and there resulting paraffin! I further learned that mixing classes of polymers eg; esters and urethanes would not be wise. The absolute answer would only be found in a chemistry lab setting.

I would opine that shot to shot velocities could have varied wildly given the large groups. I believe the velocities to be at least 2700fps or more and wild.
Perhaps a far better coating procedure is in order, and velocities somewhat lower may be the answer. Presently California makes testing that I want to do expensive and difficult.

[popper]

500F is probably too close to slump temp of alloy. You will not get paraffin from 'burnt' PC. Tumble PC will not get you accuracy at 2700 fps, nor will a soft alloy. Don't shoot 243 or 270 but due to large case volume/boolit dia. I'll SWAG it and say Unique or 2400 load for ~ 2K fps would be best.

[milsurpcollector1970]

Mike what is that bullet. Thats good accuracy I thought that pointed pb boolits didnt do well.

[NYBushBro]

The EASIEST way to redirect this thread would be to say "pictures of TARGETS only"... none others need comment.

'Enuf said.

[RP]

The EASIEST way to redirect this thread would be to say "pictures of TARGETS only"... none others need comment.

'Enuf said.

Good luck with that only reason the pic only thread is clean is because I delete all other post at the end of each month.

[Tackleberry41]

I didnt take any pics of the target, but I had bought an NOE .460-425 RG GC mold as the Lee 500gr I have casts so under sized. I needed a decent bullet for the rifle, and have found going to a better mold does tend to give better results. With the HP pin it comes out about 390gr. I sorted them, less than perfect ones got remelted, and I weighed them only keeping ones in a narrow band of weight +/- .1 gr. Then used the blue PC from powder by the pound, looked thru the thread on what works as the harbor freight gave such terrible results tumbling. They do come out nice.

They do shoot well, with rounds touching at 50yds, out of my iron sighted H&R. Just used wheel weights to make them. No hint of anything left in the barrel. 2200fps, but a bit hard on the shoulder in that light H&R using reloader 7.

[Tackleberry41]

Everybody wants pics or it didnt happen. This is from my hornet, H&R. I was seeing how they work before I made anymore. I have used them before, much slower using unique from the lyman manual, no powder coating, just lube. Its the 55gr Lyman mold. Nothing special about the alloy, just wheel weights for use subsonic in my 223. Sized .224, PC is powder by the pound, wet blue. Tumble coated once, 20 min in a toaster oven at 350, dumped in a bucket of water.

I was curious how hard they could be driven. No load data this hot in the lyman manual. So used min data for jacketed, 10gr of IMR4198. That got me avg of 2657fps, book said 1955 for jacketed at that load. Bit of a high ES at 115.5, not my scale as I have been using a jewelers scale to .01 of a grain. So they were all exactly 10gr. Have been using lil gun due to the extra velocity. May be a bit much for cast, unless I go with lino as it would be close to 3000fps. But can always try and see how they do.

[Kos1966]

Reading through the thread. What is accuracy of a 224 at 200 yards? Rcbs mold 55 gr? Powder coat gas check? I want to push to about 2500 fps

[pastorcurtis]

Rifle: K31, 7.5 Swiss
Bullet: Lee C309-170-RF (cast, coated, sized to 309)
Coating: Eastwood's Light Blue Ford, shake'n'bake
Brass: Re-formed Win 284 brass, once or twice fired
Primer: CCI
Powder: 30.0 Grains of H4895
Distance: 50 Yards
Sight: Stock irons
OAL: 2.675"
Crimp: Lee Factory Crimp Die

Four shot group.