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Thread: Real Accuracy (2 moa or less) with Coated Rifle Bullets at 1800 fps or greater.

  1. #281
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Ruger American 450 bushmaster 100 yard group. 2nd trip to the range shooting cast boolits. Boolit I used was my casting of a lee 300 gr, smokes PC, and GC'd along with 35.5gr of h110. Sized .0001" over bore. Didn't chrony the load but I'm sure it's about 1850fps or a little more. I loaded them at 2.035" the first time with the same boolit I ended up WQing and shot a 1.250" group. This trip I lengthened them to 2.055" and AC (didn't check the hardness and probably didn't make it any softer after PCing process). I taper crimped the boolit to .474". The boolits were weighed and separated within one grain of each other. I started my test with a clean barrel consisting of three shot groups starting at 27 gr so it had - good 15 to 20 rounds through it before I shot the 1.25" group. I cleaned it and went back and shot a couple foulers and shot the 1.190" group. I want try a 50/50 mix alloy next with this load and see if it opens or tightens up my group.

    I worked H110 up and down from starting loads in .5gr increments all the way up to max 460 S&W load recommendations (40gr) with no pressure signs. I had a lot of 1.5" groups along the way. I don't recommend trying but the ruger American 450BS is built on the same action as the ruger American 300 WSM and is rated for 60,000 PSI. I did find at top loads the stock must have been flexing as the magazine would fall out every couple of firings. I took it out for a third range session last year using lil gun powder and rattled my scope loose wrecking the internal adjustments. The replacement optic is mounted but the gun hasn't seen range time since. Been playing with my 77/44 instead trying to close the gap.

    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 06-10-2018 at 12:59 PM.

  2. #282
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    2400 is a good all around plinking powder. Playing around with pc'd bullets in a 308w using the lee 312-160 tl bullet. A 100yd 10-shot group that measures 1 3/8" outside edge to outside edge.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    The 16.0gr of 2400/egan 308 bullet pc'd needs a little load tweaking. 1st attempt with this bullet did under 2 moa with the fliers. 10-shot group @ 100yds.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Didn't chronograph either load but I will do more testing with several different bullets and the +/- 18.7gr load. I'll chronograph them, should be in the 1800fps+ range from a 30" bbl.

  3. #283
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    its not 1800 fps...1675fps. its a 100 yard group out of my ruger 77/44 using 21gr of h110 and a lyman devastator...




    I havent chronied this load yet but im sure its at or above the 1800fps mark. Its the same boolit/rifle combo loaded with 23.8gr of W296...


  4. #284
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    My new best. Probably a little under 1800 fps. I'm going to guess right around 1700 fps without running it accross my chrony. This is my first three shot group at the range today testing this powder charge load combo. It was using 21.1 gr of lil gun and a Lyman devastator. The alloy was 80/20 ACCOWW with 12% pewter added to the total shot out of my ruger 77/44. It expands great.

    I shot a .6" group at a 100 yards...

    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 08-24-2018 at 12:46 AM.

  5. #285
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    1. number of fouling shots if any - No specific fowling shots, most groups are in the middle of a range session
    2. coating used, how applied; time and temperature of cure - HF Red Powder Coat, Tumble Lubed, 15 Minute bake after reaching 350 degrees.
    3. Bullet used, alloy, and sized dia. - any culling criteria used (eg bullets weighed to +/- .2 gr) - Custom no groove "357AR" 180s and 200s, Range lead, +/- 0.5 gr, with special base forming setup
    4. powder used and estimated or measured velocity - WC 680 powder, ~ 2050 Feet Per Second.
    5. Rifle used and caliber - PSA AR-15 platform, MDWS 357AR barrel, 2-7X Scope.
    6. How accuracy compares to jacketed and/or traditionally lubed in the gun - Nothing but PC being run at this time
    7. GC data - None
    8. number of shots in the group - At least 5 for a typical group, some groups have a few extra.
    9. Number of groups before accuracy deteriorates. - Barrel is not normally cleaned, I run all I want with no change in accuracy.

    I have posted more about my efforts with the 357AR at http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-Rimless)-AR15

    My most recent range trip included a sub 4" group at 200 yards with my 200s at real close to 2050 fps (pic at post 83 in the thread at the link above).

    I have had more than a few sub 2" groups at 100 yards with 180 and 200 gr bullets at over 1850 fps. I got the 180s to reliably shoot under 2 MOA at 100 yards first, but they do terrible at 200 yards. Eventually after I fabbed up a better batch of cases, the 200s started to shoot under 2 MOA. The 200s stay accurate out to 200 yards, and I can push them over 2000 fps with no loss in accuracy.
    Last edited by P Flados; 03-31-2019 at 06:07 PM.

  6. #286
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by waco View Post
    Attachment 88616

    So here is the Lee 180grain .308 boolit. I gas checked and sized them to .311, before PC. Not sure on what powder I'll use, but I'm going to shoot for 2400-2500 FPS. I re-sized them to .311 after the PC process.
    Has anyone else PC over a GC boolit before?
    Yes Waco I PC over GC all the time. Don't seem to have any adverse effects on accuracy. It does seem to "lock" the gas check in place as opposed to just checking after PC. Recovered PC boolits in the past have had 100% check retention.
    TO the OP,
    Boolit: RCBS mold 55 gr. FN GC
    Alloy: WW
    GC: SAGE
    POWDER: RED DOT
    CHARGE: 5.5 GR.
    CASE: .222 REMINGTON
    GUN: REMINGTON 788 BOLT
    PC: SMOKES CLEAR GLOSS SHAKE AND BAKE METHOD.
    BAKE TEMP: 400 DEGREES
    TIME : 20 MINUTES
    The boolits drop at .2255 i set the checks with a .225 push through die. ( yes there is enough resistance to seat them) then PC, water drop after, resize to .225 , load and shoot.
    If it will load I will send pictures of my best target.
    In regards to shooting safety.Until you are ready to fire, keep your booger hook off the bang switch.

  7. #287
    Boolit Buddy
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Windless day/ 65 degrees, distance 100 yards, off of bags. No foulers. 2 minutes between shots. Not too shabby I'd say.

  8. #288
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by P Flados View Post
    1. number of fouling shots if any - No specific fowling shots, most groups are in the middle of a range session
    2. coating used, how applied; time and temperature of cure - HF Red Powder Coat, Tumble Lubed, 15 Minute bake after reaching 350 degrees.
    3. Bullet used, alloy, and sized dia. - any culling criteria used (eg bullets weighed to +/- .2 gr) - Custom no groove "357AR" 180s and 200s, Range lead, +/- 0.5 gr, with special base forming setup
    4. powder used and estimated or measured velocity - WC 680 powder, ~ 2050 Feet Per Second.
    5. Rifle used and caliber - PSA AR-15 platform, MSR 357AR barrel, 2-7X Scope.
    6. How accuracy compares to jacketed and/or traditionally lubed in the gun - Nothing but PC being run at this time
    7. GC data - None
    8. number of shots in the group - At least 5 for a typical group, some groups have a few extra.
    9. Number of groups before accuracy deteriorates. - Barrel is not normally cleaned, I run all I want with no change in accuracy.

    I have posted more about my efforts with the 357AR at http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-Rimless)-AR15

    My most recent range trip included a sub 4" group at 200 yards with my 200s at real close to 2050 fps (pic at post 83 in the thread at the link above).

    I have had more than a few sub 2" groups at 100 yards with 180 and 200 gr bullets at over 1850 fps. I got the 180s to reliably shoot under 2 MOA at 100 yards first, but they do terrible at 200 yards. Eventually after I fabbed up a better batch of cases, the 200s started to shoot under 2 MOA. The 200s stay accurate out to 200 yards, and I can push them over 2000 fps with no loss in accuracy.
    The one variable that may be working against you at 200 yards may be the wind. Rarely do we have ZERO wind here in NW Ohio.

    I found that cutting 2" wide strips from thin garbage bags and putting them on surveyor stakes helped me judge wind quite well, spread out over the 100 yard distance.

    The "tell tale" on wind effects to a group is a diagonal pattern to the group, it will typically be an oval if you drew a smooth curve around the shots, but it will be angled...this is because wind causes both a horizontal and vertical displacement.

    Nice to see 5 shot groups too..they are a different animal than 3 shot ones for sure.
    Both ends WHAT a player

  9. #289
    Boolit Buddy
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    I don't have anywhere to stretch it out to 200 yards, but would love the chance. Would be nice to see a 5 shot group at least close to the one I posted. I shoot at a public range that is ran by the National forest service and at best I can shoot 108-110 yards.( If I crawl the berm and shoot a target on the top, which would be very unsafe. Could be someone enjoying the National forest , hiking, mushroom hunting etc. Don't wanna put anyone in harm's way . I also agree that a 5 shot group is a different animal. Most people I know stop at 3, or their groups open up on the 4th shot.Mine usually have the 5th shot as the group breaker. -Caster
    In regards to shooting safety.Until you are ready to fire, keep your booger hook off the bang switch.

  10. #290
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by CASTER OF LEAD View Post
    I don't have anywhere to stretch it out to 200 yards, but would love the chance. Would be nice to see a 5 shot group at least close to the one I posted. I shoot at a public range that is ran by the National forest service and at best I can shoot 108-110 yards.( If I crawl the berm and shoot a target on the top, which would be very unsafe. Could be someone enjoying the National forest , hiking, mushroom hunting etc. Don't wanna put anyone in harm's way . I also agree that a 5 shot group is a different animal. Most people I know stop at 3, or their groups open up on the 4th shot.Mine usually have the 5th shot as the group breaker. -Caster
    Many disciplines record shot strings, may be for group or for score, or for both, and they also record aggregates. The aggregates, five 5 shot groups for example averaged REALLY show real world gains in usable accuracy. The aggregate for score the most, it weights the bullet impact as to how close to the target center it scored.
    Both ends WHAT a player

  11. #291
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    The 357AR that I am shooting has done many groups that were "one ragged hole" plus a flyer. And as I previously stated, some loads do great at 100 and then spray all over the place at 200. These issues really made me want to string at least 5 together under 2 MOA at 200 before I felt the load was "right" and the performance was "real".

    Now having said that, I am still really hoping to do even better if I can get to the range on a much calmer day. It was pretty gusty and the wind drift numbers for a 200 gr 0.358" boolit at close to 2000 fps are pretty darn big.

    I made the shape of my custom boolit as areo slick as I could while keeping some meplat. This was for both retaining velocity at 200 meters and for bucking wind. My 180s and 200s have the same nose and were intended for both 357AR duty and IHMSA use.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #292
    Boolit Master

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    I have a 357AR myself . Got it "working" in time for Deer season last year, did not see any Deer. Not to get it "really working" this summer .

    Bill
    Both ends WHAT a player

  13. #293
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    I started experimenting with PC just about a month ago. This is only my 4th session shooting PC as opposed to lubed. Lubed bullets were shooting right around MOA but I was still getting a little bit of leading. The PC has been shooting very clean. I do not use a brush between shooting sessions, just a patch wet with Ed's Red.

    Rifle is a Savage 12BVSS in .308 (with jacketed it is a 3/4 MOA rifle)
    Brass is Winchester, CCI BR primers for high speed loads, std CCI LR primers for the Blue Dot loads
    "Lead" is hardball alloy from Rotometals, PC is Eastwood Ford Light Blue
    Coated by tumbling with matte black airsoft bb's, picked by tweezers and stood upright on Al plate drilled to size.
    Baked per Eastwood, 450 until flow, 400 for 20min. Air cooled after casting and after coating so should be around 16bhn
    One coat. Some were gas checked and sized, coated and sized again. Others were coated, gas checked and sized (different tgts below).

    The 'long range' load is a measured charge of 23.8gn IMR4198 and the plinker load is ~8.0gn Blue Dot, thrown from a Lee Autodisk powder measure. All are seated so the bottom of the first drive band, which engages the rifling when chambered. The long range loads are matched weight and inspected bullets. The plinkers are the rejects.

    This is proving to be a MOA rifle or better.

    First picture is a group from a COLD barrel. Lubed and cast bullets had a definite change in POI from the 1st to 3rd shot. These PC bullets do not seem to care. These were gas checked and sized after coating.
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    This group followed the first but these were gas checked and sized, coated and sized again.
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    The plinker load. I had to sight this one in so the sequence is shown. Also less shots per group. This means that the groups may be small due to circumstances, ie, the three bullets fired were close in weight so shot to same POI.
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    And just to show they can shoot further, this is a 200yd group. Fired this to get an idea of velocity (don't own a chronograph). Estimated velocity of this load is 1800fps. FYI, the wind had picked up and was a little gusty, 5-10mph.
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    Needless to say, I like this powder coat thing. Not as messy, no worries about leading, seems to leave less powder fouling in the bore.

    Next experiment is to do 2 or three coats to get the nose of the bullet to engage the rifling.

    I am ecstatic about the plinker loads. It is like shooting a .22 rimfire but with a 180gn bullet. Only downside is ~150yd limit on accuracy. This is not due to the idea of a plinker load, but, due to 1) using rejects and 2) not carefully measuring powder. Hard to get longer range accuracy if your bullets all weigh different and have flaws in them. Still loads of fun and a good practice load.

  14. #294
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    cheap psa 16 inch 300 bo with a rcbs 130 spitzer gas check pc coated with smokes powder, 20bhn. Shoots 2moa at a 100 yards with 16 grains of aa9 or 22 grains of 110. the aa9 load runs around 2000 fps and the 110 load does 2300.

  15. #295
    Boolit Master
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    Bump. Any new news here?

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  16. #296
    Boolit Master
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    I have a new bullet and loads I want to try but don't have an open range to try

  17. #297
    Boolit Master

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    My daughter shot this with my 221 Fireball bench gun. NOE 60 grain cast, 2564 fps average over 11 shots.
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    Last edited by mattw; 04-12-2020 at 11:40 PM.

  18. #298
    Boolit Master
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    Nice! (Love the "sneeze".) No need to say "W-T-F?" (Why the flyer.)

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  19. #299
    Boolit Master
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    Can't believe it... I put the letters without the hyphens, and the system bleeped it out! Political correctness to the rescue!! AARRGGHH...

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  20. #300
    Boolit Master

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    She is more steady than I am now, going to be an awesome shooter if she keeps it up. I still shoot my bench guns, but one hole groups are the exception for me now maybe 1 in 8 or 9. Between my eyes and carpal tunnel in my trigger finger, can't feel much on that light a trigger, my groups are not what they once were. Most are still under 1/2 inch, many around 3/8 inch but not many that I measure in thousands over bullet diameter any more.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check