New to muzzleloading questions

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Hey all. I got me a CVA for muzzleloading deer season. I've done the pellets and powerbelt bullet thing, but now I want to try casting a few of my own.

I plan to buy a round ball/REAL mould. I know with the ball I need to first apply a patch, so does the size of the ball have to be much smaller than the barrel? How much smaller?

For minie balls, do I have to powder patch first? Does it matter if it's solid or hollow base? I'd think it might not let the hollow base expand. And for these does the boolit have to be slightly larger than the bore like in a metallic cartridge? Looks like they have a .517 mould. That sounds too big for a .50 cal right?

Thanks for any input!

[johnson1942]

good luck, and you most likely will get a lot of responses. i'll just address the round balls. 5 thousands smaller than top of lands diam. a .495 round ball for best accracy. also get a stout range rod or make one. use that to put the bullets down the bore. make sure the range rod has a stout handle on it and put a bore guide on it to keep you crown and muzzle new. dont make or buy it too long, the leverage will be better if it is only as long as it needs to be. dont use wheel weight lead for your bullets as they go down too hard. not every one does but i do, i wipe one real damp patch followed by two dry ones between shots. makes for usually easier loading and better accracy. dont pay outragous prices for bore wipeing patches. go to wall mart and buy a couple of yards of pure cotton flanel cloth. you can tear them into the proper width for a cleaning patch the cut them the same length and their you are several hundred cleaning patches at a reasonable cost. shoot loose powder instead of the pellets. all you need is a good powder measure. never tamp the ball or bullet on the powder just set it on the powder. never leave a gap between powder and bullet. the two most accurate powders are real black and blackhorn 209. for black horn 209 you would need a inline muzzle loader with 209 primer ignition. i have shot some good groups with pyrodex recently. the way to shoot loose pyrodex is dont compress at all and always put the bullet on it with the same pressure. be very safe, keep your gun clean, and once you learn what makes your gun shoot make that a routine a habit and do everthing the same way. the more you shoot it and the better the results the more you will really like this type of shooting. also if you have some evening time on your hand read the sticky by idaho ron on paper patching and if it interests you start asking question on what you dont understand on it. many of us here shoot paper patched bullets and really like them. easy to make, easy to load, very powerful and very accurate. have fun

[mooman76]

The REALs are a basically a maxie. Maxies have a solid base. .517 is not too big. The bands on the REALs are tapered. First band is the size of the bore second and third are slightly larger. REALs come in two sizes. One with 3 bands and one with 4 which is heavier because it is longer. When you seat the REAL it forms the bands to the rifling to seal the bore. I'm guessing you are shooting an inline and a over powder wad or patch helps them shoot better.

[ogre]

Friend if you are going to shoot patched round balls then you are going to have to have the gun tell you what IT likes. There are simply too many variables: the thickness of the patch; the tightness of the weave; the size of the round ball; the powder charge; the lube; the depth of the grooves, the twist rate, the hardness of the lead; barrel harmonics; etc. for me to tell you what you should be shooting for best accuracy. I can't even tell you which ball to shoot because some barrels prefer a .490 ball and others a .495 ball.

[Rattus58]

Hey all. I got me a CVA for muzzleloading deer season. I've done the pellets and powerbelt bullet thing, but now I want to try casting a few of my own.

I plan to buy a round ball/REAL mould. I know with the ball I need to first apply a patch, so does the size of the ball have to be much smaller than the barrel? How much smaller?

For minie balls, do I have to powder patch first? Does it matter if it's solid or hollow base? I'd think it might not let the hollow base expand. And for these does the boolit have to be slightly larger than the bore like in a metallic cartridge? Looks like they have a .517 mould. That sounds too big for a .50 cal right?

Thanks for any input!

What model of CVA do you have? I'm not certain that anything designed for pellets is suitable for roundballs... further, i'd definitely be using a thick overpowder wad for this project...

[Hanshi]

A good rule of thumb (which works for me, by the way) is .010" under bore diameter. You can adjust using various patch thicknesses.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

What model of CVA do you have? I'm not certain that anything designed for pellets is suitable for roundballs... further, i'd definitely be using a thick overpowder wad for this project...

It's an inline CVA Optima. I ordered the special Blackhorn Plug so I can use loose powder.

Thanks for all the responses. Is there a thread on how to make over powder patches?

[fouronesix]

I have no idea what an over powder patch is. You can make or buy over powder wads. Some use cork, some use dense felt, some use varieties of dense polymer and some use dense cardboard. You can get a 1/2" arch punch or wad punch and punch your own. Lay material on smooth piece of hardwood board or plastic cutting board, hit with hammer- just hard enough to cut wad.

If you are going to shoot a lot or experiment with different materials then get a punch. If you're not going to shoot or experiment much then just buy some. Various sources like Buffalo Arms sells different kinds of wads. The pre-lubed felt wads are common in gun shops, sporting goods stores and other such outlets.

If all else fails get a good blackpowder/muzzleloader manual like the ones put out by Lyman.

[Rattus58]

It's an inline CVA Optima. I ordered the special Blackhorn Plug so I can use loose powder.

Thanks for all the responses. Is there a thread on how to make over powder patches?

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/174/1

Over powder card wads (cardboard and milk carton... be careful of the wax) http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSe...0+caliber+wads

I use felt wads over powder with my patched roundballs and cardboard wads for my conicals.

I'd not be thinking of round balls in your gun if I was you. I've shot roundballs from my white and was limited to very low powder charges in order to have good accuracy. On the other hand, if you don't mind really light loads, they are fun to plink with.

I don't know what the blackhorn plug is but I think overall you'll be happiest with loose powder especially if you acquire some shot tubes to carry precharged loads around with you. I use CVA's speed loaders and separate the powder and the bullet with wadded up paper towel... works really well.

Have fun and let us know how it all worked out for you...

Aloha...

[Dframe]

The oldtimers used "pillow ticking" available at fabric shops. They would push a ball just into the rifling then pull it. The ideal ball size was one that had clear engraving of the patch material on it when pulled from the bore. Ticking was then cut into strips and lubed. Or left dry to be lubed later, during loading. To load, the lubed ticking was placed over the muzzel and the ball pressed in just below the level of the muzzel. a patch knife cut away the excess ticking and then the patched ball was pushed down till it contacted the powder. The lubed patch eliminated leading, provided a bore seal, and helped lube the bore with every loading.

[fiberoptik]

http://blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com
Answers your questions, make your own range rods, etc. Best BP investment I have!

[jimbull34]

I bought a CVA Optima last year because we have "forever Wild Land Tracts" here in AL and you can only use shotguns with slugs or BP rifles. since I am a "puritan" I will NOT use a shot gun with a slug, period! I make my own BP and swage my own bullets out of .45 acp brass. The rounds are a hollow point soft lead tip, the ejector puts a .109 hole in the tip of the bullet about a quarter of and inch in. They shoot great and weigh in at 325 grains, I use 150g of my powder and the accuracy is great. I have open sights right now and would like to put a scope on when I can afford it. I really like the bp way of hunting, one shot, one deer!

[OverMax]

That's interesting jimbull34. Now that's a trick I would like to know {the swagging of 45 brass?} First time I ever seen that done.


Here's a place to buy wads. I found this Links products to fit my application for an over powder wad in the past. (Good products)

http://www.circlefly.com/html/welcome.html

[rigmarol]

Jimbull, ingenious sir.

Smart-alec response: If you are too much of a purist to shoot slugs from a shotgun, how do you get past using jacketed bullets in in a muzzle loader and comment you want to scope it too? No need to reply, I'm just pokin' a little fun at your comment is all. I really like the swaging idea and would love to hear more about how you do it.

[Lefty Red]

You have a great rifle. Its got the fast twist barrel and I would use sabots and handgun bullet of your choice or the T/C Shockwaves. You can pick them up anywhere.

If you need some sabots and bullets, PM me. I have a couple different sizes you can try out and save you from buying a bunch.

Lefty

[bigted]

so jimbull ... do you anneal those 45acp's a bunch before you press em into those snappy looking bullets? you didn't say but I assume they are 50 cal. what does the diameter of the main body measure? cool looking setup.