Buck Kill with 32-20 ballistics

[357maximum]

The question as to whether or not a 32/20 is "sufficient" for deer hunting cmes up alot here. My answer has always been...SURE IN THE RIGHT HANDS WHY NOT? This morning I killed a buck using very similar ballistics.

I was hunting with a sleeved 10 inch contender that was made using a barrel stub from a severely mistreated 357Mag barrel that I got from RedNeck Dan. The cartridge is the 30Badger (AKA 30X38spcl) The cartridge is formed using 38 Special brass formed and necked down to 30 caliber in a standard lee 30Mauser die with a smaller expander plug installed and loaded with the standard seater. A wildcat with standard (cheap) dies...gotta love that.

My load :
4.1 grains of Tightgroup
BRP 120 grain plainbased round nosed flatpoint made of soft scrap that tests 8-9 BHN sized .311
CCI 500 SP primer
Muzzle velocity is 1210 fps


So I was sitting there about 9 am or so watching plenty of deer and having a good ol time when this horny feller came trotting in after his girlfriend. He stopped at 48-50 yards and basically stood there and said shoot me. I brought the hammer back and let him have the little 120 grain pill right through the slats. The boolit entered ideally in the centerpoint of the ribs, travelled through both lungs and exited the far side right by the diaphram ever so slightly breaking the diaphram/rib connective tissue. At the shot he lunged forwards, took a few hops and then quickly walked 12 steps or so. At that point he stopped walking then unceremoniously just tipped over sideways......stone dead 18 yards from where he stood when I tripped the trigger.

The ballistics of the 30Badger are real close to the 32-20 so I definately say "yeah" yet again to the experienced hands that choose to use such a cartridge for deer. The 32/20 was brought out as deer round and deer have not gotten tougher over the years......unfortunately the quality of many of the marksman in our midst has dwindled a bit too far for my liking however.


Now for the pics:




Entrance wound:


Exit wound:

[Hickory]

You couldn't ask for better, unless he walked up to your truck after you shot him.

[badgeredd]

To give perspective here is a picture that compares the 32-20 with the 30 Badger on the right.



As luck would have it, the 30 Badger holds 0.1 grains less water than the 32-20 so load data was super easy to come by.

Edd

[TCLouis]

Congratulations.

Nice deer.

So looking at that picture the neck could be shortened and gain some velocity, but from the performance on that deer with a hole in and a hole out, it looks like the original cartridge is more than enough oomph.

Boolit made it through the deer and disrupted life services, what more need a boolit do?

The Lee 115 grain Soupcan and 30 Herrett any well be a better performer that anyone would expect seeing these results and that is on a Michi deer (??) vs one of our little deer.


AND we keep wondering if a 357 Mag will work?

[Wolfer]

Sometimes it's not how big the hole is but where you put the little hole. For an experienced hunter who knowes his limitations in a reasonably target rich environment this would be all he needed.
Probably not suited for the general public though, IMO. Woody

[357maximum]

No need to shorten the neck to gain velocity.....powder selection will do that for you. I chose the tightgroup because I have a bunch of it and it shoots very accurately.....a slower powder can get this 10incher to 1400+.....I deemed it unneccesary and cheaped out to lessen the asst shotgun powders left over from my competitive skeet days. I also have an 18 inch sleeved H&R topper in this caliber 1800 fps is not out of the question and 1600+ is easy.

[dk17hmr]

Obviously that buck didn't read about how under powered that round is.

Nicely done!

[btroj]

Well done.

I need to get a deer with my Marlin 32-20 one of these years.

[357maximum]

Sometimes it's not how big the hole is but where you put the little hole. For an experienced hunter who knowes his limitations in a reasonably target rich environment this would be all he needed.
Probably not suited for the general public though, IMO. Woody

Other than replacing "sometimes" with ALWAYS...I agree fully. When I am hunting a few miles south at home I get to see far too many deer that have a 12 gauge slugs put in the WRONG spot.....I always get a bit of a quiver when I hear the story.....I PUT THAT SLUG RIGHT THROUGH HIS LUNGS AND I LOST HIS TRAIL AFTER I TRACKED HIM 3/4 MILE....that is only about 1/2 step better than I must have missed him with my slug cause he kept going.

[357maximum]

Obviously that buck didn't read about how under powered that round is.

Nicely done!

Thanks Doug...this one must have missed his Kevlar innoculation.

Well done.


I need to get a deer with my Marlin 32-20 one of these years.

Thanks Brad, that 32/20 cannot getRdid sitting in the safe ya know.

[badgeredd]

So looking at that picture the neck could be shortened and gain some velocity, though it looks like this was enough.

Boolit made it through the deer and disrupted life services.

The Lee 115 grain Soupcan and 30 Herrett any well be a better performer that anyone would expect seeing these results and that is on a Michi deer (??) vs one of our little deer.

The idea behind the wildcat was a CHEAP, EASY to make cartridge for plinking and small game hunting and pest control. The neck was actually lengthened from my original prototype to make it very cast friendly. The bullet mold was made by BABore for this cartridge. It is similar to other wildcats, but again it was made to be easy all around including the forming of the brass from cheap 38 Special brass.

Edd

[btroj]

Mike, it is difficult to take a 32-20 deer hunting when a. 375 H&H is begging to put a large hunk of lead thru a deer.

So many guns, so few permits.

[357maximum]

The idea behind the wildcat was a CHEAP, EASY to make cartridge for plinking and small game hunting and pest control. Edd

OOPS sorry Edd when you were talking "small game" in the development/idea phase I thought you were talking antler size...forgive me for my confusion. The pest control part I grasped real well however and it works real well to get rid of critters of oh say the size of a pheasant munching no good fer nothing feral housecat....or so I have heard. I also firmly grasped the CHEAP and EASY part...imagine that.

[Anonym]

Nice shooting and nice deer! Makes me look like I'm cheating using that fat 45 Colt carbine...

[badgeredd]

OOPS sorry Edd when you were talking "small game" in the development/idea phase I thought you were talking antler size...forgive me for my confusion. The pest control part I grasped real well however and it works real well to get rid of critters of oh say the size of a pheasant munching no good fer nothing feral housecat....or so I have heard. I also firmly grasped the CHEAP and EASY part...imagine that.

That was the idea in the development phase. It is by no means a limit for uses. AND deer are small compared to some other critters...................

Edd

[EMC45]

Great job and write up.

[sparkz]

I am a big fan of a 30cal for deer but clearly you had done a fine job usein that gun and size and nice shot placement
after my son Sean took a buck with a 75gn 223 I now believe anything can happen and shot placement is king

Nice shootin
Patrick

[JSH]

The 32-20/30-20 is my favorite to play with.
I see a lot of 30's on the 38/357/357max case given various names.
"if" such a little word that holds a lot of us back from projects. If I had an extra lever gun in 357 I would sure be inclined to make new lever gun. If one were to go this way I am thinking of 360DW brass or shortened max brass. Keep a length that would feed but use the extra brass for the neck?
I had fooled with the 30x221 years back before Ken got me into casting. And for those of you with the latest greatest cartridge for the black rifle, the 300 blackout. Just run a 357 mag case up into it and shazam!
Use that die to neck size and a carbide 38/357 die to size the web and your done.
If I had the funds I would be posting picks rather than talking about it.
As you first comment on
"deer have not gotten tougher over the years......unfortunately the quality of many of the marksman in our midst has dwindled a bit too far for my liking however"
Oh so true. Be it jacketed, cast or sticks with a sharp point. It is all shot placement you have to hit them where they live.
Judging distance is another area a bunch of folks do poorly.
I have shot enough projectiles down range with these little sub 30's to know what they can do. Boolits from 110-225 grains and the best for me weight wise have run 120ish to 145ish. A good proper design is what we lack, at least in a common off the shelf mold.
I myself don't like the faster powders. I will just say I ran into issues before I got to the speed and accuracy I desired. Your 38 case has a lot of merit here I believe.
There are some out there that I have read on that use bullseye all across the board on various weights. Just spooks me as the accidental double charge.
I will hush and finish my coffee.
Can you see I like the little 30's?
Jeff

[smkummer]

Its posts like this that seem to prove that one can never talk bad about 30 carbine and good about 32-20 in the same sentence.

[badgeredd]

My favorite plinker load in the 30 Badger is 1.7 grains of Bullseye under a 120 BRP or a 150 grain bullet from a self customized mold that started life as a 311291. Very quiet out of a 20" barreled rifle. Another good load with the 120 is 7 grains of AA#7. There has been a lot of experimenting with light to HEAVY bullets with a multitude of powders.

Edd