Starting a bullet casting business, any advice?

[MtGun44]

PLEASE re-read William and Jeff's comments.

THE FIRST THING TO GET OVER IS:

"HARD CAST" - is NOT necessarily a good thing! Almost all other commercial
caster apparently do not understand this.


Using EXPENSIVE alloys to cast super hard boolits for cartridges that do NOT need
hard alloys is a waste and often makes the boolits perform MORE POORLY!

For .38 Spl, use .358, and .45 ACP size to .452 and cast to about 8-10 BHN
WITH A LOWER COST ALLOY and you will be able to sell cheaper than your
competition and still please the customer (perhaps even MORE than the
competition's TOO HARD boolits). If you offer 9mm boolits in .357 and
.358 diam and not very hard, say 12-14 BHN you may be deluged by customers
because YOURS will work where everyone else's .355 and .356 diam glass
hard junk-boolits will NOT.

If you have a web site, you might even try EDUCATING your customers that
hard is not important and FIT is super important. Point out that .357 or .358
and softer alloy will work much better in most 9mms. Some folks will
try it and be AMAZED.

Bill

[nicholst55]

PLEASE re-read William and Jeff's comments.

THE FIRST THING TO GET OVER IS:

"HARD CAST" - is NOT necessarily a good thing! Almost all other commercial
caster apparently do not understand this.


Using EXPENSIVE alloys to cast super hard boolits for cartridges that do NOT need
hard alloys is a waste and often makes the boolits perform MORE POORLY!

For .38 Spl, use .358, and .45 ACP size to .452 and cast to about 8-10 BHN
WITH A LOWER COST ALLOY and you will be able to sell cheaper than your
competition and still please the customer (perhaps even MORE than the
competition's TOO HARD boolits). If you offer 9mm boolits in .357 and
.358 diam and not very hard, say 12-14 BHN you may be deluged by customers
because YOURS will work where everyone else's .355 and .356 diam glass
hard junk-boolits will NOT.

If you have a web site, you might even try EDUCATING your customers that
hard is not important and FIT is super important. Point out that .357 or .358
and softer alloy will work much better in most 9mms. Some folks will
try it and be AMAZED.

Bill

While most of us here on this forum are aware of the supreme importance of bullet fit, the vast majority of non-forum members are not. They've been brainwashed by gun rag writers and retailers who insist that 'harder is better.'

I encounter this mindset nearly every time I try to discuss cast bullets with other shooters. 'Not cast, hard-cast is what I'm talking about.' Is a response that I frequently hear.

I personally believe that efforts to educate the masses on the virtues of properly sized bullets of appropriate hardness to the loading would be largely a waste of time, effort, and bandwidth.

Don't get me wrong, commercial bullet casting might be a good part-time business to engage in. Probably a very expensive one, because I wouldn't want to do it in my garage for a variety of reasons. You could spend your nights and weekends casting, sizing, lubing and packaging bullets, and then carry them to regional gun shows.

[KYCaster]

This discussion comes up occasionally and I usually try to stay out of it, but I made a comment earlier in this thread and it probably sounded a bit cynical. So let me try to explain.

To the guy who referred to "buyer's market" and "go back to doing what works".... The term buyer's market implies that the consumer has so many options available that he can negotiate a price that's lower than he would normally find. If, in order to make a sale, you have to "go back to what works", which was setting your retail price at your break even point, then you've defeated the entire purpose of a business, which is to make a profit. The reason for the low price to begin with is to get the customer to buy an unknown product and get a chance to show him that your superior product is actually worth more than what is available from the competition. If your customer is not willing to pay you enough to make your desired profit, then your business is a failure.

My biggest problem with these discussions is that you get lots of advice from people who have never tried to run a business of any kind. You get lots of personal opinion, but very little fact.

For example....Alloy....Consensus here is that "hard cast" is inferior to a softer "cheaper" alloy. It doesn't matter what alloy you use as long as your customers find it acceptable and continue to buy it. What really matters is the cost of the alloy and the availability. If your business is going to be successful you need to buy alloy at the best possible price. Just for starters look at Rotometals, a site sponsor here. Order 1000 lbs. of 92-6-2 the price is $2.62 per pound with free shipping on orders over $1000. OK, the going price for bulk cast bullets is around $3.20 per pound (quite a bit less at gun shows). So your cost of materials is 75% of the retail price of your product. And guess what...except for 40-1, that's the cheapest alloy they have. You obviously have to do better than that.

Don't despair, you can reduce that cost. Billy-Bob's Recycling has a TON of lead and if you take it all, the price is .75 per pound. Some of it is WW, some is sheets and some is in corn bread ingots. Twenty hours and two tanks of propane later you have 1800 lbs. of nice shiny alloy, now all you have to do is determine the exact composition of it.

So you fire up the casting equipment and start cranking out 45-230-RN at the rate of 3000/hr. and at the end of the third day your alloy is gone and you have a big pile of bullets that need to be sized, lubed, inspected, packaged, marketed and delivered. That should net you about $6120. Subtract the $1350.00 material cost and you have $4770.00 left to pay all your other expenses, like lube, boxes, labels, electricity, heat, gas, vehicle, computer, telephone, internet access, insurance, licenses, rent, maintenance, depreciation, etc., etc., etc. And it only took you 65 hours in direct labor to get the product ready to sell. That only accounts for the actual time spent in the shop, not the time spent on administration, marketing and procurement. If you depend on your buddy the ammo manufacturer for a substantial part of your sales then subtract 20% or so from that net income.

Just one more point and I'll shut up........

Now you're back home from the gun show at midnight Sunday. You're ready to start the whole process over first thing Monday, but Billy-Bob's Recycling doesn't have any more lead. It takes him a couple of months to accumulate a ton of mixed scrap. And the next batch you scrounge probably won't end up the same alloy, and twenty hours you spent over the smelter could be used to better advantage on other stuff so you find that you can buy guaranteed, certified, repeatable alloy for $1.35/lb.....you just have to buy a truck load at a time to get that price. All you need is $52,000.00 and it will be delivered to your door. So now you have 40000 lbs. of alloy that cost you about 40% of your retail sale price, but that is more than offset by the hours you would have spent smelting scrap and much better than buying in smaller quantities.

All it takes is CASH!!

So there you have it....how to make a fortune casting boolits....well, not exactly.....you still have to figure out how to sell 20,000 lbs. of boolits every month, but that shouldn't be too difficult compared to the other problems you'll have.

Anyway....here's the best advice I can give you...before you start a business.....any business, there's a resource available that you really need to take advantage of. It's absolutely free to anybody who wants to use it. It's the Small Business Development Center. They have a package with all the various questions you need to answer and all the calculations you need to do to estimate the start up cost and estimated return on your investment. Even if you choose not to believe what you learn from them, at least you'll know what to expect.

Good luck with your new business.

[MaryB]

My local college had a business center. Free to anyone thinking of opening a business. An afternoon appointment told me all the paperwork I needed to satisfy the state and feds to open my laser engraving business. Plus a free accounting program(older version of quick-books)

[detox]

Profit margin? What percentage would you clear on one box of your premium ladle cast boolits.

I learned this watching Shark Tank on Friday nights.

Hey... I can do this. Anybody need any premium ladle cast boolits? I have several .308, .357, .452, .458 moulds.....20/1 alloy, Linotype, Lyman #2. All boolits weighed within .5 grains with smooth sprue cut and sharp edges. Bullets come wrapped in John Wayne industrial toilet paper.

John Wayne toilet paper is rough and tough and won't take doo doo off no man.

[wv109323]

I would try to visit pistol/rifle competitions local to your area. Competitors shoot many more boolits than the average shooter. If you can identify the locals that would try your bullets in a Ransom Rest(pistol bullets) give them 20-30 bullets to try. If they perform word of mouth will sell your bullets.
If local enough take orders and deliver them at the competitions. Competitors will buy yearly supplies of one type bullet.This eliminates freight. Also offer a reduced rate for a bulk order of say 50,000 bullets of one or two types to clubs. Club members will pool their needs and order bulk amounts. An example, Most trap clubs will order shot once a year by the ton based on the needs of club members. Gun Shows may or may not work out. Most people at a gun show will buy 100 bullets and you never see them again.

[TES]

wow....I get as much lead as I can for free!

[quilbilly]

Make sure you file your form 720's and pay the fed excise taxes. They used to send you the forms quarterly but now it is up to you to find them, download and print yourself then pay on time. The IRS has no sense of humor at all.

[HNSB]

Find out what you can do that is different than what these folks do.

+1

Define your unique selling proposition and put it in writing. Keep it in front of you so it remains your focus.
Then use social media, forums, etc... to spread the word - keeping the focus on your USP. Don't muddy the waters and don't try to be everything. You're dealing with a saturated market. Focus on what makes you different and if it's what people want, social media will do the rest.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Sounds like someone who knows what he is talking about.

I would normally agree except for the fact that if you only sell at break even you will never make any money. DUH?

The proven markup needs to be 110-120% over total cost to produce, and that is the wholesale number.

Unless you sell at this level you will just be wasting your time. I know this for a fact,,,!!! since I wasted a lot of time before I found these numbers.

IF you can't sell your product for that much markup (IE: it's too expensive and nobody buys it) or you can't produce the product for little enough so that you can make those numbers (IE; you can't make the product cheap enough so that you can sell it at 110-120% over cost, and still be at a price that people WILL buy it.) then you have an unviable product.

Selling boolits is a brutal business and you must offer something that the other companies out there that have been doing it all along don't sell.

Trying to compete head to head with larger established companies in this particular business is going to be a tough Row to Hoe.

I personally don't see this working, since trying to sell something completely unique will quickly show that virtually every customer will want something slightly different than what you make. Offering more choices will only lead to customers wanting more choices.

The only way a bullet business will work profitably is to do large volumes of standard boolits like for Pistol cartridges styles in common calibers and sizes.

It is not that big a deal to size boolits in various sizes for the same caliber. It is a completely different matter to make every order a custom order and try to make money on small volumes.

AS far as promoting. Put and Ad in Handloader and Rifle Magazines and here on this site. It's got to be there for at lest a year for enough people to notice you.

If you run the business part time and don't quit your day job until it is paying the bills and then some, then you'll be able to see if the business is viable before you bankrupt yourself.

Try to keep equipment investment to a minimum until a significant demand must be met. Then tool up for the larger volume, and only buy equipment for cash, that way your equipment is always paid for and you're not having to make payments when the demand shortens,,, AS it will.

All businesses are cyclic in nature. That means your profits will have ups and downs. You still have to pay the bills during the downs.

Last bit of free advice. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Ship happens.

Randy

[HNSB]

If you decide at the beginning to cater to the bargain shopper, you're marketing yourself as a discount outfit. That becomes your identity and you'll always be at the mercy of the bargain shopper.
Have a different way to market your product (your identity or brand) and you can still establish a customer base without selling yourself as "the cheap guy".

[Shawn2571]

Brinell 18 is where it's at. Maybe skip the Indiana bullet company i ordered 10 days ago my account was charged 6 days ago and i haven't seen my bullets yet, emailed them, but get no reply!

[popper]

10% margin doesn't leave any pad for marketing costs, etc. when I was a kid selling light fixtures, 4x markup. For sales, inventory/facilities, tax man, profit.

[Lakehouse2012]

PalmettoShooter - so tell us how the business is going, 5 years later. Inquiring minds would like to know.... im guessing with only 32 posts, he isnt even active anymore?

I'm in the process of starting a cast bullet business and I'm looking for a little advice. First off I've been hand casting for years and I'm well read on the legal requirements of starting a bullet business. I'm applying for my FFL, have commercial casting equipment, and am finishing the final touches on some specialty molds (hush hush on that for now). In the meanwhile I have a commercial business contact that is interested in purchasing traditional cast bullets.

My question is what is the best way to drum up extra sales while I'm starting out? I was planning to spread word locally, have a website to do online sales, and offer discount sales through various forums, in particular group buys. Any advice for someone starting out commercially?

Thanks everybody, and of course CB members will always get a discount once it's up and running!

Joel

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[Hossfly]

I was wondering the same thing. How is it going now?

[Tom W.]

JonB said something that was spot on. Use a quality lube if you are going to sell sized and lubed bullets. Don't use some cheap crayon looking junk for a lube that probably won't work as well as something that may be a bit more expensive, but worth the cost.

[fredj338]

I'm in the process of starting a cast bullet business and I'm looking for a little advice. First off I've been hand casting for years and I'm well read on the legal requirements of starting a bullet business. I'm applying for my FFL, have commercial casting equipment, and am finishing the final touches on some specialty molds (hush hush on that for now). In the meanwhile I have a commercial business contact that is interested in purchasing traditional cast bullets.

My question is what is the best way to drum up extra sales while I'm starting out? I was planning to spread word locally, have a website to do online sales, and offer discount sales through various forums, in particular group buys. Any advice for someone starting out commercially?

Thanks everybody, and of course CB members will always get a discount once it's up and running!

Joel

The internet is great, get s presence there. Look into all the competitions out there where guys shoot lead or coated lead bullets & offer to donate for the prize tables. It gets your name out there for a minimal cost. Personally, I think you need to go coated todays market to get buyers. The lubed lead bullet crowd gets smaller every year.

[brass410]

do something that you enjoy, become the best at it and you'll never feel like its work....YEA RIGHT if you re really lucky you might not go bust but for sure you wont retire when your 30 there wont likely be a big house with all the toys in your future unless you signifigant other has a real high paying job to support your dream. That being said there are excellent resources out there to help determine if you have a niche product for the target market of choice find them use them and good luck dream big and never give up!!

[MT Gianni]

Palmetto Shooter's last activity was 12-12 15.

[bobthenailer]

magnma engineering has a book with a lot of good info for starting a cast bullet business !