Gunsmith Wants to Buy Me a New Cylinder

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Fellow Sophisticates,

My gunsmith machinist wants to buy me a new cylinder. I gave him a brand new Colt SAA .38 cylinder to be bored out to .44 Special and his reamer broke. He says my cylinder it most likely trashed and he feels awful, stressed. I told him to take a deep breath and relax, I’m out a cylinder, he’s out his reamer. He’s out more money than I am. Funny thing is I ordered another cylinder from Brownell’s figuring it’d take another 9 months to get, and I got it from Brownell’s in a week. Cylinder bushings are back ordered since last –what, July? I’m still waiting for bushings.

Does he owe me a new cylinder? Eddie Janis says he cannot be responsible for tool breakage during re-boring. The job was a custom job, kind of aftermarket work. If Colt had destroyed my cylinder during a re-blue job I’d expect them to replace it, but I don’t feel that way about this job.

This machinist gunsmith signed my State Certification as a firearms instructor some 20 years ago, and we shoot together still.
What is the right approach here?

[nhrifle]

If it were me, I'd just say stuff happens and get myself a new cylinder and call it good. If he wants to knock a little off the bill for the work then ok, but tools break, especially the ones as hard as reamers and such. I'm sure he didn't intend for it to happen.

[rbertalotto]

If he is a good friend, and does work for you at a discount, I'd not hold him responsible.

If he charges all get out and never delivers his work on time and has a "bad gunsmith" attitude........then it's his fault and he owes you....

[I'll Make Mine]

Sounds to me like he's overreacting a little, anyway. You've got one trashed chamber, and five good ones (one or more of which may still need to be bored and/or chambered, depending where he was in the process and what order he works). The damaged chamber might be possible to bore oversize (say, .050 or so), solder in a sleeve, and rechamber at considerably less cost than a new cylinder and no loss of strength or accuracy. After he's had a good night's sleep (maybe even a day or two off for the holiday), he can look at it again and see where it's really at.

[btroj]

If he is a friend and feels that bad I would let him off the hook. At some point it will be replayed I am sure.
There are some case where things other than money are important.

[Finster101]

Sounds like he is a stand up guy. your cylinder may be salvagable at least 5 holes anyway. You could always put an empty case with no primer in the bad hole just to mark it and use the rest. Sounds like you are going to have this one as a spare. He is out a tool and they aint cheap either. I'd be inclined to let it go. Especially if his work is normally good.

[Artful]

from your track record with him, I'd let it go.

[30calflash]

Sounds to me like he's overreacting a little, anyway. You've got one trashed chamber, and five good ones (one or more of which may still need to be bored and/or chambered, depending where he was in the process and what order he works). The damaged chamber might be possible to bore oversize (say, .050 or so), solder in a sleeve, and rechamber at considerably less cost than a new cylinder and no loss of strength or accuracy. After he's had a good night's sleep (maybe even a day or two off for the holiday), he can look at it again and see where it's really at.

Or you can use it for a 45 colt in the future, just a thought.

[cbrick]

Had almost the same thing happen. Jim has been my smith for nearly 30 years and for 30 years everything he touched was perfection and fairly often I had a hard time getting him to take any money for what he had done for me. A few years ago he had my Ruger 30 Carbine to hone the throats on, got a phone call from him and he said he messed up the cylinder. Well, after 30 years and the very first thing he had ever messed up I couldn't find it in my heart to get upset over it so I told him not to worry, I'll just ship it off to Ruger and have a new cylinder put on it. Too late, he had already sent it to Ruger.

Now Ruger enters the story, after nearly 9 months and no word from Ruger Jim called to find out what was going on. Ruger told him that they didn't have a cylinder for the 30 Carbine and they were waiting for the next run of them. They decided that the 30 Carbine may be dropped and there would never be a new cylinder. They told Jim that since they had sat on it for so long that what they would do is keep the 30 Carbine and I could pick any revolver from their current catalog as a replacement.

Great! I spent 2 weeks going over the Ruger web site seeing what I could get and called Jim with my decision & Jim called Ruger. Two weeks later my Ruger 30 Carbine shows up at Jim's with a new cylinder, all new internal parts and even brand new wood grips (it was shipped to Ruger without wood) and a note saying they changed their mind on the deal. Huh?

What I suspect happened knowing Jim is that after we waited so long is that Jim decided to buy a replacement revolver for me but he knew I would never let him pay for that. At about that time my 30 Carbine shows up. Yep, Jim would do that so is the Ruger story true or my suspicions? Did Ruger charge him for the rebuild? Probably but he wouldn't tell me and except for the time involved the whole thing never cost me a dime.

That's an honest smith, that's Jim, honest to a fault. I feel that I owe him for the rebuilt Ruger and told him so many times but he won't even discuss it with me.

So does your smith owe you a cylinder? If he is anything like Jim after awhile ya just gotta tell yourself that's Jim, it is what it is and he is going to do what he feels is the right thing to do and there is no arguing about it.

Rick

[gandydancer]

you lost & he lost. let it go. good friends are hard to come by. GD

[BCB]

If you were going to pay to have the ‘smith’s work completed properly—he owes you a new cylinder…

The cylinder has 6 chambers and to salvage 5 of the 6 is compromising—it has 6, they all should work…

If people are to do responsible jobs for a wage, they shouldn’t just get away with saying, “Whoops!”…

I got a car repainted and it turned out fine. But what if the spray nozzle would have failed for but a brief moment and I got a very slight run in the paint on the hood of the car—is that a “Whoops!”?...

Nope, redo it…

Might be a hard stance to take, but too many times we reward or encourage mistakes by not requiring a correction…

Actually, the ‘smith should volunteer to purchase a new one and that would end the uneasiness of all involved…

Just my thoughts…

Good-luck…BCB

[Jack Stanley]

Let him insist to do whatever he wants to make it right in his mind , you sound like you are already good with what happens . After you let him do that , you might just "insist" on buying him lunch for the next several range outings you have together .

Jack

[I'll Make Mine]

Actually, the ‘smith should volunteer to purchase a new one and that would end the uneasiness of all involved…

The way I read the original post, that's more or less where he's at; the smith wants to replace the cylinder, but the OP feels bad accepting it.

Still, IMO, worth letting him have another look to see if it can be overbored and sleeved; a SAA cylinder isn't going to be easy to come by compared to machine work. Should be plenty of meat there (those cylinders were originally built to accommodate .45 Long Colt, after all), if the cutter didn't take a big chunk or break through when it failed...

[fatelk]

If it were me and the smith was a good friend, I wouldn't worry about it, and just let him decide what he feels is right about it.

If I were the smith, without question I would make it right.

[41 mag fan]

You know, maybe i'm a different breed of character, and i value friends almost like I value my family.
But if he buys you a new cylindr, let him, dont argue about it, and go on with life like nothing happened...wait a few months, and if he's done work for free or at little to no cost in the past, maybe just out of generosity buy him a reamer?

reamers aren't cheap, but he's going to remember that gift and offer a gratitude and friendship that will stand the test of times.
Friendship bonds can be as strong as family bonds.

[x101airborne]

So, why not split the cost? Then the poster doesn't feel like he was cheated or is being too hard on the smith. Me personally, I would just let it go, but I see all sides. If he is a good friend and he always helps you with projects, I would not allow him to replace my cylinder. And if he insisted, let him do it and leave him a really nice bottle of Chevas on his lathe.

[willk]

While test riding a bicycle I had rebuilt for my best friend, I had a flat. (bike tires do that) Without even telling him, I repaired the tire/tube. My dime. Then, after I delivered the bike back to him, I explained what happened and not to worry. Point, when stuff happens and it is in the course of my work its mine to fix. (I rebuild bicycles for both paying customers and build bikes for free for kids whose parents can't afford to buy them one. My work is specialized and not cheap)

[bob208]

get a new cylinder. save to old one you may want to make a .45 colt some day. for the new one split the price of the replacement.

[Jack Stanley]

Wait a minute guys ... you what he now has a busted cyliner for the original project . According to the rules of gun projects that means he has an extra cylinder that could be used for a 45 Colt . The way I see it he should now be in the market to get another frame he can use for a new .45 Colt revolver .You gotta admit there's a lot of ya that are thinking the same thing .... jest didn't know they wuz a rule fer it didja ?

Jack

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I bought a new Colt .357 SAA cylinder and received it rather soon without waiting too long and gave it to the gunsmith. Dave Manson was encouraged to hurry to manufacture another .44 Special cylinder reamer to replace the one that broke. The gunsmith told me my new cylinder was cut and ready. The new throats were .4305". I met him with a couple hundred dollars in my hand, he handed me the new cylinder and said: No Charge.

I took the new cylinder out to the range and put it in my old Colt. Got the tightest group I've ever got with that pistol. Five shots in 2 1/4" dead center 2 hand hold off hand. Not all my groups were as tight, but I was shooting off hand, and the sun had dropped below the tree line. Funny thing was my tight group was shot with junk wheel weight alloy and Lyman 429667 dropped from my 4 cavity mould. Sized .431" lubed with SPG. Starline brass CCI300. Can't wait to test it with some Keith boolits.