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View Poll Results: What is the typical accuracy you expect from your cast boolits?

Voters
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  • Under MOA

    26 15.29%
  • 1-2 MOA

    106 62.35%
  • 2-3 MOA

    28 16.47%
  • 3-4 MOA

    8 4.71%
  • Over 5 MOA

    2 1.18%
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Thread: Cast Boolits - What Accuracy Do You Get?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy rsterne's Avatar
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    Cast Boolits - What Accuracy Do You Get?

    I'm relative new to casting boolits, but not new to shooting.... I'm really curious as to what you consider normal accuracy.... ie what are you happy with and figure there really isn't much more to be had?.... MOA, of course, means "Minute of Angle" accuracy, which is about 1" groups at 100 yards (1/2" center to center at 50 yards).... Please be honest, don't put what you WISH your bullets could shoot, but what they actually DO.... We're talking rifles here, not pistols....

    EDIT: I just noticed the last choice in the Poll is "Over 5 MOA", and I meant to say "Over 4 MOA".... so if there are any of you that expect 4-5 MOA, please select that choice.... *grin*....

    Bob
    Last edited by rsterne; 10-30-2013 at 07:36 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Sometimes it takes a little tinkering but I can usually get as good or close to as with jacketed, albeit at much less velocity. I have one old pump Remington that will shoot cast better than jacketed unless I slow the jacketed way down.

    When I first started casting for rifles I used normal powders. Results were not that great. One day I happen to read an article by Ed Harris about the load( 16 grs of 2400) Since I had a jug of 2400 in the shed I give it a try. Now it's virtually all I shoot. 16 grs is rarely my best load but it's always pretty good.

    I always recommend new casters start with this powder before they go to your normal rifle powders. That way you have a baseline to compare to.

    Velocity will top out with this powder at 1700/1800. Accuracy will start to fall off thereabouts. The first year I hadn't worked up any faster loads so I just hunted with what I had. They worked so well on deer that I never changed. Woody
    Some people live and learn but I mostly just live

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    No way to answer the poll because I shoot so many different ones.

    But, it's a bad day when I can't better MOA with my C Sharps- knowing it's capable of 1/4-1/2 MOA on any given day. Conversely, it's perfectly normal and I'm very happy to shoot a nice circular cluster of maybe 2-3 MOA with a 150+ year old original musket that was originally not expected shoot anywhere near that well.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Depends. I expect MOA from an MOA rifle, less from a lesser rifle.

    It is all about perspective.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy Driver man's Avatar
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    Im quite happy with 3MOA, a well placed shot brings home the meat at 100m. Ive only ever lost 1 red over the years.Still dont know why.Sometimes a load will show better accuracy than others and sometimes you will be able to duplicate it. The quest begins
    The Bird of Time has but a little way
    To fly-and Lo! the bird is on the wing

  6. #6
    Boolit Master


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    Since you don't mention what caliber or firearm, I am assuming hunting rifle with scope.

    That would be .75 to 1.75" at 100 yards.

    NOTE: That is only with carefully worked up loads.

    Just throw anything together and shoot it at 100 yards and you will be lucky to get 6"

    My record BAD group is three shots in 38".
    First reload: .22 Hornet. 1956.
    More at: http://reloadingtips.com/

    "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the
    government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian."
    - Henry Ford

  7. #7
    Grouchy Old Curmudgeon

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    Depends a lot on what you want the gun to do or what you use it for. Offhand practice as an example....it has to shoot as well as I can. I also like to see 10 shot groups on demand....not 3 shots or an ocassional great group...I don't think they really tell me the accuracy of the gun and load.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master MarkP's Avatar
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    Some of my rifles shoot cast just as well if not better than jacketed. Scoped bolt guns generally shoot 1.5 MOA pretty consistently. My worst group from a scoped rifle was about 7" at 80 yds; 247 gr 30 cal in a 1:12 twist @2,600 fps. Have had several pinky finger nail sized groups at the same distance.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Since I just posted this yesterday. This is what I consider a good start to load development.


    Savage 99 in 300 Savage at 50 yards. This was the best grouping. There were a few other loads that put all shots w/in 3". This rifle will shoot close to MOA w/ jacketed if you do your part. Now if we were talking my 357 Marlin w/ open sights the acceptable grouping is a lot different.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    My goal is 2 moa for rifle or handgun, if the gun is up to it and I can do my part. I've found that to be a fairly reasonable goal. Doesn't happen every time, but more often than not it is achieveable with a good gun. I've only shot moa with a rifle once. I'm simply not willing to go into the extreme testing and incantations I percieve necesary to chase moa or better with cast bullets. I cast from multi cavity molds, do a visual inspection, lube size then load and shoot.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master


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    I did not vote. "Accuracy" depends on an established criteria which is not present in the OPs question. As mentioned it depends on the firearm and intended use. Accuracy also depends on a relevant test sample which is lacking in 3 or 5 shot groups or even 1 shot groups which some seem to use as their "accuracy" criteria.

    Larry Gibson

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have gotten MOA at 100 for several sets of 8-shot groups with my Benjamin Marauder, shooting 25 auto boolits from an RCBS mold. The mold could be better, and at the time I was pretty darned green( matter of definition, pick one and I'll say just how green I still am ). I expect that sort of performance from my air rifles, and I am not all that brilliant of a shot. Well, that may be sand bagging a bit, I pulled 232 of 250, in USMC Boot.
    cheers,
    Douglas
    1990 D250, NV5600, Luk 05-101, 16cm housing, TST Kit KDP tab, 366 spring, Powr-Lok'd 3.07, HX35...IC soon
    She wasn't built to travel at the speed a rumour flies

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Ask Ben.

    Bill
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master KYCaster's Avatar
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    I've been looking for an excuse to tell this........

    It got a little frosty here last week so I put on a heavy coat when I headed out to the shop....an ancient woodland camo field jacket I normally wear deer hunting. Stuck my hand in the pocket and found a baggie with two 35 Rem. rounds in it. So I sez to myself....The last shot out of that gun killed a doe last November.....season starts soon, so it's about time to shoot a couple of rounds to make sure everything's ready.

    I tacked up a target at 100 yds.....a NRA "Official 50 ft. Timed and Rapid Fire Pistol Target". The first round took out the letter "X"....the second was an 8 at 5:00.

    So two rounds in 1.75". That's typical for 5 shot groups from this gun....., but.....it took three years to find a load that would put the first round in the group, on demand, day in and day out, from 0* F to 105* F.

    I have guns that will shoot smaller groups, but if something absolutely has to die....this is the gun and load I will pick.

    This doesn't really fit into your poll, but it gives you some idea of what I look for in a particular load.

    BTW....After I put the gun in the safe I looked for my stash of hunting ammo and found that I had just shot the last two rounds I had.....no problem......I always have plenty of RCBS-200-FP. Well....wrong alloy...wrong lube....wrong diameter. I almost had a panic attack! Ran to the shop and fired up the pot.....wrong alloy.....drained the 92-6-2 and filled it with 50 WW/50 Pb and cast a hundred or so 35's, a couple hundred 429421's and a bunch of 312-155-2R.

    So now I have the 35's sized to .358, lubed with Bull Shop Speed Green, with a Gator Check from Blammer and ten rounds loaded with 34.5 gr. of IMR3031, a WLR primer, at an OAL of 2.510. I'll shoot these for group tomorrow and if they perform as expected, I'll load enough to last (probably) the rest of my life.

    Life is good!
    Jerry
    Buzzard's luck!! Can't kill nothin', nothin'll die!!

  15. #15
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer


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    If I have a rifle that won't consistently shoot under 1.5" at 100 yards, it doesn't stay here long.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    If I have a rifle that won't consistently shoot under 1.5" at 100 yards, it doesn't stay here long.
    Exactly. I EXPECT I can make any decent rifle group into less than 1 MOA at any range. If not, it gets fixed, traded, or sold.

    I EXPECT I can see well enough to shoot only about 2MOA every time with good open sights, and if I haven't had too much coffee can hold well enough to repeatedly group half MOA from a good bench with good bags with a scope and a rifle/load that's capable of slightly less. That means I need a quality scope to meet my accuracy expectations from a rifle, but not all my rifles have scopes. I still expect sub MOA accuracy even if I can't see well enough to realize it because if it's a 2 MOA gun and a 2 MOA sighting system, what I have isn't a 2 MOA consistent system.

    I've cut a lot of 3/8" holes with three shots that turned into 2-1/2" or larger ten-shot groups. Consistency is everything. I demand that the RIFLE maintain my accuracy standard for a minimum of ten consecutive shots, starting cold, in any weather I'm likely to be shooting in. That's up to me as a cast boolit handloader to achieve, and as a cast boolit handloader to determine if possible for the rifle.

    If I spent half as much time working on my bench technique and weather-reading skills as I do fussing with the rifle/ammunition, I'd be a pretty good shot.

    Gear

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Gear, isn't that the truth about learning to shoot from a bench and read the wind and light. No matter how good the rifle or ammo a poor shooter is still a poor shooter.

    Accuracy demands are what we make of them. If I am hunting deer at 100 yards with my Marlin 30-30 do I care if it shoots only 3 inch groups at 100? Most likely not. Same rifle being used for lever action silhouette- I care far more about accuracy because the demands have changed.

  18. #18
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    Hard to comment since I shoot mostly revolvers and have done 1/2 minute at 100 too many times. Still working on a 30-30 I bought. I don't intend to hunt with it but really want small groups for the heck of it. No reason cast can't shoot, just takes more work. I am a beginner with a rifle but long ago I shot chucks in the head at 100 yards with a model 71, .348 and cast, shot 3/4" with a Marlin 25 20 at 100 with cast. Open sights for both. Had to sell them. BIG MISTAKE!
    I wonder if new rifles are cast friendly? I also need your help with my Marlin 30-30.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by MtGun44 View Post
    Ask Ben.

    Bill
    Dang right, ask Ben!

    Heres a random thread of his for the OP. Get back to us on it.....
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-NOE-311331-PB

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    I only do cast in pistols and really haven't taken the time to measure it. (I didn't vote). I have one anecdote though. Cast 9mm.. during the "pinch" (or at least the worst of the 9mm pinch) I went shooting with an old HS/College buddy of mine. He was astonished that my old gun was more accurate than his new SR9 was. And I mean significantly so.

    I kept telling him he had the better gun, but I had a very consistent load worked out for my gun. We both shot my loads much more accurately than the factory. I didn't let him try my cast in his gun since I didn't have the ability to check the headspacing/chambering of the round, etc. on his gun in the short time I had. (It probably would have been fine but I don't screw around.) But I think he was "sold" on the idea at that point.

    As long as you go with a little "softer" load than FMJ and about 0.001" larger diameter than FMJ cast in a pistol it can be very accurate.

    Oh, and that I had no problems *having* ammo then. Since plated and FMJ pills were as rare as factory ammo.. I could still make my own! I gave him a box of factory so he could shoot more with me...

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check