Lenourd ?????

[starmac]

There is a guy at the gunshow that has a project gun I am mulling over, and by project I mean project.

It is a lenourd I'm sure that is not the way it's spelled.

The thing is some type of old target rifle, apparently in 36 caliber and the barrel is heavy maybe even larger than 1 in. It has 4 small holes drilled in the muzzle, I'm not sure what those are four. I think it is all there (maybe) the stock is broken and all the small (or at least most of them) parts are in a tin.

The reason I think it is some sort of target rifle, is because the barrel is too heavy for it to have been a hunting rifle.

Anybody have a clue what this is by this description?

[mooman76]

Old BP guns were common to have thick barrels. I have an old 32 that is 1 1/16" thick and about 42" long. Not a target gun but does still shoot real good.

[RPRNY]

The holes at the muzzle may have been for a false muzzle. Late 19th and early 20th Century Schuetzen rifles of the higher end variety were often equipped with a piece of the barrel that had been cut off to use as a false muzzle with the rifling indexed via the holes you mention. One would muzzle load the bullet to breach seat and then chamber the cartridge such that it sat 1/16" off the case mouth.

[451 Pete]

In my books I have several references to the name Leonard. One is listed as an Artemus Leonard whose shop was located at Saxtons River , Vermont ( name changed to A. Leonard and Sons in 1849 ) Gunmaker from 1843 - 1860. Made hunting and match or target rifles. Another Leonard is a George O. Leonard and listed as a general gunsmith at Keene , New Hampshire from 1859-1869. Your rifle could have been made by either Leonard. A third Leonard is listed as making pepperbox pistols with no mention of rifle making attached to this Leonard's name.

The four holes that are drilled into the muzzle of the barrel you have are for the alignment pins for a false muzzle. The false muzzle was a cut off portion of the barrel that was about 1 1/2 inch's long. This piece was pinned back in place with alignment pins attached to it and then the barrel was rifled. All cleaning and loading was done with the false muzzle in place. It was removed for shooting. The false muzzle could serve several purposes. First it protected the crown of the rifle barrel from any damage from a loading or cleaning rod, second it was lapped to give a taper lead in to the rifling for easier loading and better alignment of a bullet to the centerline of the axis of the bore, and third in some cases it provided a place for a cross patch paper patch to rest. Long story short ... if it is missing you cannot get another one made to fit that barrel properly as it only has to be a very little bit off and the rifling will not align back up properly.

The piece on this false muzzle that go's off to the left acts as a safety as a sight block. It can be tied as I do to the bench. This keeps the false muzzle from being absent mindedly left on the gun and shot down range. The bullet shown in the false muzzle is a slip fit from the lead in to that point in the false muzzle where the taper stops and the actual full rifling is engaging the bullet.


Hope this helps ... Pete

[starmac]

Pete that is exactly what the muzzle looks like. I think I will go back in the morning and check if the false muzzle is in the tin with the other parts, If it is I think I will pick it up for the heck of it.

[Rattus58]

Somewhat off topic, but at the Muzzleloading championships a couple of years ago, one that Knight had one almost routine, White Rifles went in with a 32 or 36 caliber and walked away with them... small calibers do quite nicely at the closer ranges... heavier calibers seem to better at longer range when you're talking muzzleloaders.

[starmac]

I will look at it again, but if the bore doesn't look better than the rest of it, it would probably need bored to a bigger caliber anyway.
It is a right hand drive and I like lefty sidelocks, so I don't know if I even want to fool with it.

Another guy there had a decent looking (at a glance) he wanted 250 for. It was a 45 though, if it would have been a 36, I likely would have tried a right hand drive. lol

[starmac]

I bought this thing, Yea I'm a sucker. lol
I had actually mispelled it. What is says on the barrel is A. Leonard below that is cast steel, and below that is SR Vt.
On the lock it looks like WARREN, under that is something that I haven't made out, but under that is ALRANY.
The barrel is 36 caliber (I think) and 1 1/16 across the flats it was missing the false muzzle and the hammer. I am not sure the lock itself can be saved. It is complete, but it seems like the square where the hammer rides is awful short. The double triggers springs look useable as does all the.furniture The stock is toast broken bad where barrel connects to the tang. The trigger guard, the little piece that the screw goes through the stock and the ramrod thimbles are brass, the forearm end cap is white possibly aluminum. everything, including the barrel is engraved except the end cap. To clean up the barrel would do away with the engraving though.

At one time this I believe was one fancy rifle, but I'm not sure what do do with it now, or even why I bought it. lol

[451 Pete]

Well from what you have figured out the rifle was made between 1843 and 1849, or before the time when " and sons " was added to the name A. Leonard. "Warren " on the lock is very possibly Warranty or Warrantied , a marking used commonly to show quality of the lock parts to the buyer. ALRANY may well have been a distributor or importer of that lock. ( Gun making was a cottage industry in those days with very few gun makers actually making every single piece of the gun from scratch. ) The stock , although broken , should be complete enough to show what would be needed to duplicate what the original stock was should you desire to do so. Your end cap is probably either German Silver or Pewter.

Pete

[starmac]

Yes the stock could be duplicated, but not by me. lol I am thinking that it would be better to use the furniture from this to have some one build another gun rather than trying to restore this as is. Admittedly I don't know much about such things. But to get the barrel looking good the engraving wood be gone.
The end cap is most likely pewter, but may be german silver, as this looks to have been one fancy gun in it's time. I would love to know the story behind it.

[starmac]

Pete I cleaned it up a little and it the wording on the lock actually is WARREN @ STEELE ALBANY all in capital letters. I googled it and found that warren and steele built locks, and maybe even rifles, and apparently looking at this add Artemus Leonard used their locks on his rifles. There is a little info on him in the add for this rifle, it is also apparent he was liked using the false muzzle like this one had, now I curious and looking for more info.

http://www.gunsinternational.com/Art...n_id=100198650

[starmac]

I probably wasted a little money on this rifle, but on the other hand the add for that rifle is just south of nine grand. So I figure I can tell folks I own an expensive rifle without really telling a lie, kinda sorta. lol There is always a bright side. lol

[451 Pete]

Starmac , you are lucky to have found that ad. It looks to be a very similar rifle and made by the same maker as the one you have purchased. In many cases very little is known about the gun makers working in that era. Some times most of what is known about them comes from tax records that only show that they had a shop and did gunsmithing at that location. Some shops did not keep good records or if they did the records have been lost over time.

Where to go from here ? The answer to that is up to you. If you like the style of that rifle and want something like that to shoot, anything can be made having some time and a bit of money. You at least have a very good pattern to duplicate new parts from. Some original parts could be re-used and engraving patterns can be duplicated. Although that would not be completely original or command the price of the rifle in that ad, it would be as close as you are likely to find and certainly much more affordable that what they want for the rifle in the listing.

just my thoughts .... Pete

[starmac]

I think I have all pieces of the stock. Who would a guy talk to to see about duplicating the stock? I am pretty sure the lock could be repaired, it is only the piece that the hammer rides on that is a concern. I do have another concern with it after some more observation, and seeing pictures of another of his rifles. The picture of one in the add has a sort of flash hider behind the drum, that looks to go between the tang and the barrel. I do not have this piece, and the metal is somewhat deteriorated where it fits together leaving a gap on the side of the lock,where this piece went. If that makes any sense.
The drum itself is out and is not in the best shape, as they apparently used vise grips or something to get it out, but could probably be smoothed out.

I should probably send this whole Kit and caboodle to someone that knows a wee bit more than I do for some advice.

[451 Pete]

Starmac, The piece of metal that I think you are saying is missing is called a fence. On this rifle it appears to have been formed as a portion of the tang and breech plug. For restoration work, or a project of this nature , I would suggest contacting Randy Grunkemeyer at RG Gunsmithing. Randy does excellent work, is a full time gunsmith, and has a web site showing some of what he does. http://rggunsmithing.com/#1

You may or may not decide to proceed with this as a project as from what you have indicated repairs and restoration on this will be extensive and having this type of work done is not inexpensive as it is very time consuming and done by hand.



Pete

[starmac]

I have to do some serious thinking on whether or not I want to spend the kind of money a guy should on this project. The decision would be a lot easier if I shot right handed.
I don't want to restore it to sell, and my son and I both shoot left handed, so it kind of doesn't make sense to invest a whole lot.

[starmac]

I'll look for Mark's card in the AM. Jack's Mountain somethin' or other....has the machinery to do the duplicating, has many patterns, and will inlet any barrel round/oct/swamped. He does nice work and isn't expensive.

Thanks, I would like to talk to him.