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Thread: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

  1. #61
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Here is picture of a 585HE made on a Stiller bolt action for guy in Canada.

    It was made for the poster Spooksar on Africa Hunting and Accuratereloading,

    by Corlanes/Rocky Mountain rifles, in Dawson Creek BC Canada, with a

    Stiller action, Timney trigger. the stock is a blue/grey laminate. He imported

    the barrel, cases, dies, etc.. from us, through Prophet River in Lloydminster AB.

    That action similar to Lawton we had and neighbor got, that won the King Of The

    2 Mile shoot at Whittington, with the 375 Lethal cartridge the neighbor made,

    from our 585 brass. Made it full length case,.. It is big one on the right.

    He made an 18 lb gun with McMillan target stock, a huge scope, tripod..

    Nice thing is we don't need BMG action.ED

  2. #62
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Some more on wildcat 375 Lethal.......

    .375 Lethal Precision Arms LLC rifle shooting prototype solid 400gr Berger bullets.

    Mitchell built this rifle himself using a McMillan A5 Super Mag stock, Rock Creek barrel,

    Nightforce ATACR MOA scope, Phoenix Precision Bipod, and a Lethal Precision Arms

    muzzle brake. Lawton Action. Lethal Precision his own gunsmith shop, will make

    these target rifles for anyone into target shooting and long range hunting..

    Remarkably, Mitchell nailed first- and second- shot hits at the 2477-yard target,

    a full 1.4 miles away. It is windy out there, makes shooting hard with a time limit.

    The prototype 400 grain Berger Bullets solid performed great, (G7 BC of 0.56 at 3000 fps).

    Here is 585 HE in an Enfield, in a Choate Heavy Varmint Stock. These are super strong.

    The butts of these can easily be weighted. Couple guys doing them....... Ed

  3. #63
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    NW Missouri
    Mr. Hubel,

    What stock is this in post number 61?

    Looks good

  4. #64
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    It is special one he had made up. Ed

  5. #65
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Here is a picture of our 585BB headstamp. Perfect lettering

    for our case as it came from production line,.

    I like Hogue stocks, but they aren't made for singleshots.

    We use singleshots for our 12ga FH and 585HE.

    Here is picture of a NEF we set up for 24ga FH and we adapted

    a Hogue 1300 Winchester Hogue to it. Looks a lot better, and

    handles recoil easier than factory, Butt hollow, easy to add weight,

    Here is picture of 585 case in the Lawton bolt, and the wildcat

    375s and others made from our cases, work in bolt also.

    This bolt is for Lawton Mitch used to win 2 mile shoot.Ed

  6. #66
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Our friend Brian from the far north went to Africa with his 24ga FH he did in
    a NEF break action and got 3 nice buffs with it. Good job.

    Our 585HE, 700HE and the great 12ga FH are now in the new COTW book
    published in Oct, now out for sale,

    We now have our target 375 HE cartridge, made by necking down our 585 HE.
    The others couldn't make enough 375s, so we started our own. It has different
    shoulder taper, length, neck length, improved over the others...Got a bunch
    guys doing it, most into the 2 mile shooting venues, We're making cases,
    testing, reamer prints at reamer guys, we are getting guys going. The 2 mile
    shoot last year really got the interest booming for 375 necked from our case,

    Here's how, size and seat 375 HE, one simple die, a 1" die, no huge dies needed
    A die we can make with resize reamer from reamer guy, a regular die body,then
    pass on to the next guy, one reamer can make whole bunch of dies for folks.

    I do primer work separate, not in the press. SO First with lock ring set, I size cases.

    When coming back out of dies with case, we notice the case still well centered,
    held straight, when it is down as far as the length of the 375 HE neck... IE
    the sides and shoulder corner still supported tight.

    So we put washer or another lock ring on, same thickness as neck length,
    below original lock ring, screw down tight tight in press,

    Dies had a 5/8 x 24 thread in top, had powder fill bushing and other stuff same thread,
    reamed out from bottom to set bullet height, with ram, case,and bullet up,

    After priming, loading in the powder charge, we carefully start(boat tail makes it easy)
    bullet in case by hand, slide up in die, into holder, raise ram to to top, bullet seated
    perfect. Die can have different thread in top as long as big enough to hold seating
    bushing of some kind , that can be made from many items.

    These target bullets held in by strong neck tension, no crimping needed, and notice
    bullet point will get no marks or dents, fast, easy, no 380-500 buck special dies.
    Bushing centering bullet on ogive is very accurate.

    OVER 900 375HE cases piled behind presses getting done. About 600 on another
    bench nearly ready. Small batches in shelves.And we will do more.

    All 375 info, prints, specs, pictures, load data, etc, is public domain, worldwide,
    for any target, hunting, etc, use............................Ed

  7. #67
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Here is picture of one of 3 buffs our guy from Canada got in
    Africa with our 24ga FH he did on a NEF, in 2nd picture

    Here is the neck die setup, with insert stems/plugs for the top that
    are set in .020" steps to make our 375 HEs shown behind
    from our 585HE cases. 900 cases behind and 600 on
    another bench, mostly done, and 600 started elsewhere,

    We also made a hydraulic form die, 375 HE test gun, starting with
    lighter bullets, for example got 340 gr to 3700,
    Will test up to 400gr We will find top speeds and powders needed
    to get that, and have info where to get powders. Reamer prints are
    at reamer guys, all prints and info is public domain... Ed....

  8. #68
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Picture of fellows at Vestals Gunsmithing test firing 585 HE

    they built for a guy. They got 750 gr to almost 2800 from

    ultra short barrel, not a full load . A regular barrel would be

    over 2900, 14000 ft lbs with full load..

    Picture of our 375 HE cases, with little 378 WEA on left.

    Middle case is with 330 gr, right case is 400gr bullet.

    Here is picture of out 375HE testgun, in heavy t-hole stock.

    So far 340 gr to 3700 and 360gr 3600.

    Next 416 HE target case, these run through the hydro-die,

    test gun done,will complete testing soon, to confirm specs.

    When specs set, info will be sent to reamer guys

    Soon will have 408 HE with specs set up also, for guys,

    Smaller case 416s and 408s can be reamed out for

    our bigger case .Ed

  9. #69
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Here is picture of a brake on 12ga FH with real hot loaded
    hollowbase lead slug, brake needed more clearance
    for the expanding slug.

    Here is the before and after of 375 HE cases
    necked, 2 on left, and then formed in hydro die... Ed

    Here is pic of 416 HSM second from left we are experimenting
    with, going to see if we can make the ultimate 416 ELR case.
    Can be 3.60" to 4.00" long, a long one pictured.
    Holds over 280 gr ball powder under bullet. The
    3.6" case can hold about 250gr under bullet.. In picture,
    1st case is 416 HE, 2nd 416 HSM, 3rd 375 He, 4th 378 WEA.

    416 HSM will get 400gr to 4100 plus without needing BMG action,
    470 gr 3800 plus , it may be the ultimate target, singleshot 416..
    Case will work in fat bolt actions, with heavy enough barrel
    to have good, milder, barrel harmonics and be under 50 lbs.
    A lot of the 2 mile type shoots are adopting 50lb limit.

    Here is picture of the 416 HSM fireformed once,
    next to bmg case we make it from and as we
    improve wildcatting process next few weeks
    some specs may make small changes, now from
    base to shoulder is 3.45", case 3.97" long. Ed..

    Manson has 416 HE and 408 HE prints, as well as 375 HE
    He can also make you a resize die reamer from that info.
    We got 700 cases in 416 and one more pass if 408s wanted, ,
    Going to do lot more cases for these 2 sizes,
    PM or email. ph 989-644-5228..

    Here are final specs for 416 HE.
    Length 3.32", belt diameter ,655", base dia .635" ,
    length base to to shoulder 2.860" , 30 deg shoulder.Ed

  10. #70
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Guys asking about strong economical bolt gun to use for 28ga and
    410 ga and 32ga with brass cases and higher pressures than plastic cases.
    They can use a MN bolt action, here is pic of one with
    our 585 case in the action.Guys can get Magtech brass cases or have
    RMC make them....Guys can make 32ga case from 500 NE,
    410s from 9.3 x 74 brass, etc..

    Here is picture of our 416 HSM case sectioned next to original
    BMG case on the right sectioned, to show that we still have
    enough thickness in the sides to handle high pressure,
    in a case with 310 gr capacity..We are getting the wildcatting
    work set up so we can do at least hundred a month.
    We have lots of 585s, 375HEs, 416 HEs, 408 HEs.....
    And working toward getting 416 HSMs in big numbers.

    Here's comparison of 416 target cases, 1st 416 HE, have whole bunch.
    Second is model of what I'd have made on medium machine, if I could,
    the 416 HE Long. It has capacity of 230gr..
    Third is our 416 HSM which we are working on making by wildcatting bmg
    cases, And if had run long cases, make longer 375 HE necking down 416 ..

    Bryan Litz just recently shot 3 shot group at 2 miles using Paul
    Phillips heavy barreled, target rifle built by Lethal Precision in
    375 Lethal Mag(585HE necked down, very similiar to 375HE )...
    It grouped 17.5 inches tall by 22 inches wide.

    Applied Ballistics shooter Mitch Fitzpatrick just hit 3 of 5 at 3520 yards,
    weekend 10-13th at Valdina Ranch , west of San Antonio.
    Also used the 375 LM case similar to our 375 HE
    Great shooting at the 2017 World's Longest Shot Challenge. Ed

  11. #71
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    The 12ga FH case now is in the new COTW book on
    last page in the wildcat section, I think page 324.
    They gave good credit to Rob for the idea of that case....

    The model 416 HE long case in middle, hydro formed one,

    has case capacity of 240 gr, and the 416 HSM in picture,

    on the right, we fired a case twice, capacity is 320gr.. Ed..

    Shooters talking more now; short, fat cases sticking, pockets not lasting as expected.
    Trying to get best speeds the things raising pressures are bad case proportions, too fast of
    powders, and the debth of the bullet into the powder space, as shown in the picture below..
    My 375, 416, etc testing, bullets loaded like bottom one, in longer freebore....Ed.

  12. #72
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Here is case measurements for our 416 HE target case
    made from our 585 HE big belted case. Ed

    Here is picture of 375 HE left, 416 HE next, 416 HSM right..

    Here, tentative specs, 416 HSM case we are doing from bmg brass,

    A 375 HE, with Lawton action, bunch being done with those .....

  13. #73
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Are the 12GFH cases still available? I've been trying to find some. I'm ready to load up and test my NEF

  14. #74
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    You have to get them at RMC or Bertrams.

    A 585 HE ...shot with moderate heavy load......


    Here is a 375 HE target gun set up, by Asteroid Precision...

    Here is video of it being tested... And with a 350gr bullet about 3450-3475,

    bolt opened easily with one finger...And he's just getting started

    and is checking on better powder, Ed..


  15. #75
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    585 Hubel Express video, 190ft/lbs recoil, heavy load, gun little light.....


    Another view of Asteroid Precision's.... 375 HE target gun,

    Here is our 416 HSM we are developing next to 416 Barrett, Ed

  16. #76
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Here in picture of the cases, are shown the steps in making

    our 416 HSM case, from BMG brass,, Ed

    We might have a company that is doing a bolt gun with an action

    between BMG size and longer rifle actions used for 375 HE,

    375 Lethal, and Cheytacs.. To use for our 416 HSM without

    having to do extreme rebating of the rim.

    Here is picture of 620 416 hsm cases half done. Done on cnc ,

    that slimmed them down, cut new rim and extractor groove.

    There are over 500 more at cnc getting done now, plus we have

    1000s more bmg cases we make them from, when needed..

    This case is public domain and if anyone wants to make

    them we can give the steps involved...Ed.

  17. #77
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    It is my understanding that a rifle can be built to .999 caliber and not be a DD. Hanguns however cannot be over .500 caliber. That's what killed the 28ga Taurus Judge. This is for cartridge guns, not muzzleloaders. If this has been addressed aready- please excuse.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  18. #78
    Boolit Master
    NoZombies's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    N. Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by Texas by God View Post
    It is my understanding that a rifle can be built to .999 caliber and not be a DD. Hanguns however cannot be over .500 caliber. That's what killed the 28ga Taurus Judge. This is for cartridge guns, not muzzleloaders. If this has been addressed aready- please excuse.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
    Actually the law applies to all firearms, but the deal is that a long gun can have a smooth bore over .500 and be called a shotgun. A handgun can't have a smooth bore at all, or it's an AOW. If a cartridge is recognized as a 'sporting' cartridge, then it can be any diameter. It could then be fired in a rifle or a pistol, as long as it's rifled. a long gun could use the same cartridge in a smoothbore as well and be a shotgun. The .585 HE is a recognized 'sporting cartridge' and therefore exempt from DD status.

    There's more nuance, but that's a reasonable summary.

    The thing that killed the 28ga judge was that it was smoothbore, and therefore an AOW.
    Nozombies.com Practical Zombie Survival

    I collect all things .32. If you have something you don't need, please let me know!

  19. #79
    Boolit Master
    woodbutcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    LaFollette Tn
    Most interesting thread,and development work.
    Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
    People never lie so much as after a hunt,during a war,or before an election.
    Otto von Bismarck

  20. #80
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    For big long cases our testing is showing that the 416 easier to get powders to work with, less problems ..
    Maybe building a target gun,don't have 375 barrel all ready, maybe go 416....

    We got cases, 416 HE and 416 HSM, as well as 375...
    CEB and others will have bullets...CEB will be doing .416 in 450gr, 475gr, 500gr, 525gr and 550gr

    Got sent 5 thick sided sample cases, same OD base as 585/375.416 cases, same belt, just .180" longer,
    did a 416 HE, chambered extra barrel , cases stick over 50k. They have about .042" total taper, .021" per
    side, when I necked couple to 416. That is a lot of taper , twice the taper of my 416HE...hanging up at 50k..

    I could maybe go to 65k with these if we made taper with ..012" - .016" more taper to each side, but that is
    no way to build target cases. I'd have to crunch down case shoulder diameter. And would look like 30-30.

    And crazy part is, the case has enough brass material to thin up sides and stretch them way out to 4 or
    more inches,, They weigh 150 gr more than our 585/375/416,, but with real thick sides they actually
    hold less than our 416 HE with thin sides, that is .180" shorter...Our case does 65k ok without sticking..

    And we can make super long 4" cases work if we had means to get them built, as we have
    15 powders slower than HBMG.Here is pic of thin and thick sided cases, sectioned for comparison.Ed..

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check