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Thread: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

  1. #21
    Slug Master
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    Here is a picture of the first 585HE to be done and firing,
    in Australia, owned by the poster, tankhunter on AR forums.
    Fellows there can get cases from Bertram. I can send
    dies and reamers.And can get dies from CH4D.
    There soon will be 3 reamers there.

    And now a company starting to make 585 barrels there.
    I have about 17 here, so no waiting here.

    Allan and Grant Swan. in Redbank, Queensland...
    allanswan at uplink.net.au.



    WE have cases with plain heads if guys need some for
    wlldcatting, necking down, and they can put on their
    own headstamp.Ed


  2. #22
    Slug Master
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    We've put some of the 585HE bolt guns in composite and Hogue
    stocks, and they are rugged for extreme weather. And they
    don't break under heavy loads. Prices are nice and they have
    aluminum pillars and/or aluminum bedding blocks.
    And with their hollow butts very easy to add weight to take up
    recoil. If lead and epoxy added to a complete fill of the hollow,
    too much weight, so I found a nice cheap substitute.
    We now using rubber coated mouse balls that we have bunch of.
    They are steel with rubber coating, and the right weight.
    They add just the right weight and and wedge in good.
    And won't rattle with coating, and we hold them in tight with
    a piece of dense foam under butt pad.

    We get asked about how much speed potential we have. And
    we start by mentioning cases can hold 190-200 gr of ball powder
    with the bullets loaded out longer. And have tested those heavy
    powder loads with 650 gr jacketed bullets, in the Enfield
    pictured I use as one of my test guns.

    And more fun shooting, using a pistol grip on one of the
    585HE falling block test guns. Real heavy loads try to spin us
    around like a weathervane.. Ed

  3. #23
    Slug Master
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    A related case to our 585 is the 24ga FH that has 3" chamber and
    brass cases reworked 577NE cases, that we reduce the rim down
    to .720"... the 24ga size rim...We make minimum chamber so that 24ga
    plastic cases, 2.5" long just fit. And min chamber cuts down on a lot
    of brass case expansion, which the wears cases out.
    The barrels are same bore barrels as our 585 and the hollowbase minie
    bullets work great in it, the ones that are .585", 440gr to 540gr.
    Makes hairy 24ga gun for deer, etc. Be useful in shotgun only areas.
    Guys on GB sells the .585" minies. And the brass cases, we don't have
    to wait for them to be made.

    Here is what 585HE barrel and its monoblock look like before
    screwing the barrel in.This one was 585HE, but process same if
    monoblocking in 24ga FH...Ed

     

  4. #24
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    texaswoodworker's Avatar
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    Sorry if this was already mentioned, but I didn't see it. What kind of pressures do these things generally top out at?

  5. #25
    Slug Master
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    The 585HE top pressures for hairy loads about 65,000psi.

    The loads for the 24ga FH in brass cases tops about 35,000.

    Here is picture of 585HE with 24ga FH ...585 longer one.
    Both use same bullets/slugs, same caliber barrels.
    Different easy usages, 24ga FH is an easy setup in break
    actions and 585HE in bolt actions and falling blocks.

    Picture of non-discarding 585/24ga sabot cup I found that holds
    458 bullets and slugs tight. It had hammerhead type slug in it that
    someone pulled out, and they wouldn't stay in tight after pulled.
    Supposed to be for 20ga, But this sabot was a loose fit
    in 20ga, though made for 20ga, so I shrunk diameter of bottom rib,
    fits perfect, super tight, in 24ga and 585HE. A press in fit gives
    good resistance for good ignition. real tight fit.

    Here is a 24ga/585 discarding sabot that holds .452" 45cal pistol
    bullets. Made by Hornady for 58cal Muzzle loaders..
    With 250 gr bullet in 585HE, hopped up load will go about mach 4.

    For ease of getting actions in stocks, I like composites.They are
    strong. come colors, many can be painted with tough surface
    paint. And They need weight added for big bore use..
    An easy way to weight plastic stocks with hollow butts, use rubber
    coated computer mouse balls, weight comes out perfect, without being
    too heavy if using that much lead. And coating keeps them quiet, and
    we hold them in with piece dense foam under butt pad....Ed


  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    What is there in Australia to shoot with something that big? Road trains? FWIW, that'd be a Destructive Device under American BATFE regs (but if you were shooting Kodiak with a single shot, that might be about right).

  7. #27
    Slug Master
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    They have big buffalo there and some there go to Africa to hunt..
    And just fun target shooting. Makes holes easy to see...

    It is not a DD, Repeat not a DD;

    We applied for and got a sporting use exemption as per GCA rules, years ago. All legal...

    It is registered as a sporting cartridge with the ATF as per GCA rules...Ed

  8. #28
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    First AUS buffalo killed by 585HE. By Tankunter with his Ruger #1.
    If you use closeup on picture, you see loaded round on the buffs hide
    next to the 585HE Ruger #1.... A nice heavy barreled gun..Ed

     
    I put the 585 in a Savage 112, lots of room lengthwise, figuring out an
    extractor is a problem, but then got a look at the savage 212, the 12 ga
    one with big diameter bolt and locking lugs. Its locking lugs are bigger
    than the lugs in a big PH bolt action. So one day will do one
    on a Savage 212, and adjusting extractor to fit no problem...Ed


  9. #29
    Slug Master
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    Here is picture of 100 cases loaded with CEB solid nose bullets
    and hollowpoints. This bullet is a turned solid with wide meplat
    or wide hollowpoint. .

    Here is pic of a Enfield with a jeweled and polished bolt, going
    to be 585HE. In the back, Bolt jeweling and polishing done by the
    great craftsmen, Bob Snapp, years ago.

    Picture comparing unfired and fired cases showing our tough cases
    One on the left fired with 650gr at 2400 and base above belt
    didn't hardly expand, Sized the top and reloaded/shot again.
    And AHC will make guns now with our 585HE for any wanting
    super top quality guns.They have some cases to give to guys
    as a sample to show guys the case. Ed


  10. #30
    Slug Master
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    Our 585 caliber is modern bolt action continuance of the 577 Nitro
    Express rimmed case, that many big game hunters like. Usually
    set up in double rifles. It has an interesting history, from the old 24ga
    size to 577NE, to the 585 Nyati with the picture of Ross Seyfreid
    shooting one in a Ruger #1 under recoil knocking his shooting glasses
    off, to the Trex of internet fame knocking guys over,
    to our 585HE the strongest yet.
    The 577NE is an offshoot of the 24 gauge caliber, only they went
    eventially to brass cases. Back in the 1860-70s, starting first with short
    cases and black powder, cases built like shotgun cases, called the
    577 Snider, then going to coiled brass cases, still with black powder,
    then on to drawn brass cases, called 577 BP Express. then to 3"
    and other longer cases with smokeless. The Snider started out with a bullet
    of .570" diameter and through the progression to the 577NE bullet
    diameter ended up at .585". This general bore diameter of cartridge guns
    and muzzle loaders, it is really interesting on how they developed
    and were used by military and then hunters over the years. The Snider
    was necked down to make the 577-450 , a military round used all
    over the British Empire, by the tens of millions.
    Bases of both 24ga and 577NE are about the same. Now we have made a
    24ga FH, a slight regression to earlier times, by taking 577NE brass, and
    reducing rim diameter to 24ga specs. Two minute job. And
    stamp the caseheads 24 ga.
    For shotgun upgrading in power and range, It is all about increasing
    the power in easy to find brass cases, stronger actions, and finding
    reasonable price rifled barrels. Same barrels we found for 585, work for 24ga.
    The 577NE brass we make 24ga drawn cases from, for example are
    about a third the cost of 600NE brass, or getting turned 24ga cases made.
    We could use 24ga thin cases but they are a pain, expand way too much,
    with slug loads which makes resizing without crumpling cases a problem.
    Info about the power in types of guns normally set up with 24ga FH,
    break actions, bolt shotguns,etc. In thin brass 24ga case, 440gr slug
    goes 1500, with about 2000 ft lbs, that's in a 2.5" Magtech brass case.
    Now using the better, heavier 3" brass we got, we can increase speed
    to 1750 fps increasing energy 50%, going to 2000 fps about doubles
    energy. And going to 2300 which good brass holds ok, in heavy barrel
    gun, gets us near 2 1/2 times the energy. About 37-40,000 psi which the
    actions hold in this smaller diameter case, compared to 12 gauge size.
    So makes relatively smaller bore shotgun, 24ga, with 458WIN power.
    .Perfect with Minie bullets. Perfect for deer and hogs, bear, etc.
    Great for slug hunting in shotgun only areas. We mark barrels 24ga
    and cases 24. A decent case that is complimentary to our 585HE....Ed

  11. #31
    Slug Master
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    Here is a different look at 585 sabots holding 458cal bullets.
    Sabots hold leafd as well as jacketed.

    Here is a long turned streamlined bullet in our 585.

     
    Anyone wanting to import barrels, actions, cases, etc into Canada from
    here can work through Prophet River Firearms in Lloydminster, AB.
    The here being the US, as well as our group with barrels, dies, cases,
    and McGowen with .585 barrels in stock, CH4D with 585HE dies
    in stock, gunshops with # 31 shellholders.
    And later few retail outlets setup with cases in stock... . Ed

  12. #32
    Slug Master
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    Another application for our 585 HE is for guys with the 14.5mm
    PTRDs, to use our case with chamber insert. In many places 14.5
    cases are scarce, real expensive, as well as most 14.5mm cases
    being steel are not the easiest to resize/reload. Our case sizes
    like regular cases and can be easily reloaded many times.
    And in a PTRD with almost a 5 foot long barrel can get 650gr
    spitzer bullet to the same speed the 14.5mm gets a 900 gr using
    3 times as much powder. 3300 fps. Or get a 900gr at 2800.
    Great possibilities for fun shooting. And tactical use in a place
    where it would be useful to reload in the operations field, where
    steel cases are scarce. A 100 cases do over 2000 reloads.

    I like Enfields to put our 585HEs in, for reasonable cost guns. .
    Here is inexpensive way to fancy up the Enfield Bolt handle by
    cutting the dogleg part of the old handle off and welding on
    inexpensive contoured handles I found, one of which is like
    Ruger 77 handle, one on the right . Something even a novice
    like me can do.....

    A lot of guys are crazy about CEB bullets. Here are light 450gr
    ones in our 24ga FH. The hollowpoint can range in weight 450gr
    to 700gr.. The 24ga FH is nice complement to our
    585HE for the shotgun only deer hunters... Ed

     

  13. #33
    Slug Master
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    For lightweight plinking, deer hunting, etc, in 585HE as well as 24ga FH
    here is picture of 58cal Hornady sabot that holds .451/.452" light
    bullets 225 to 300 gr. A way to shoot targets economically. Low recoil
    but a big bang and satisfaction. That sabot is one made for ML, but
    with .452" bullet in it is a real tight fit in brass cases, to stay
    in place and give good ignition. A 250 gr bullet would go about
    mach 4 with a top load..

    Here is what 585 bull barrel, target blank looks like, 1 5/8" OD and 32" long.
    It'll go in heavy action of some kind. 4th one from the left. The one in yellow
    sleave on top, is a heavy contoured one with muzzle of .980" ..The 5th, 6th,
    7th blanks on bottom are straight 1.375" 585 regular twist blanks.
    One in paper wrapper is slow twist 585 barrel...Ed


  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by hubel458 View Post
    Another application for our 585 HE is for guys with the 14.5mm
    PTRDs, to use our case with chamber insert. In many places 14.5
    cases are scarce, real expensive, as well as most 14.5mm cases
    being steel are not the easiest to resize/reload. Our case sizes
    like regular cases and can be easily reloaded many times.
    And in a PTRD with almost a 5 foot long barrel can get 650gr
    spitzer bullet to the same speed the 14.5mm gets a 900 gr using
    3 times as much powder. 3300 fps. Or get a 900gr at 2800.
    Great possibilities for fun shooting. And tactical use in a place
    where it would be useful to reload in the operations field, where
    steel cases are scarce. A 100 cases do over 2000 reloads.


    Hey Ed,

    I saw this same post on CanadianGunNutz a few days ago.
    I am interested in this idea.
    I see from the post directly above that you work with Prophet River.
    I'll try contacting them soon.

    Cheers,

    Dean

  15. #35
    Slug Master
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    Dean- yes an exporter in WA State I can send cases to,

    works with Prophet River. The picture is of just a model,

    you'd have to get inserts made to fit your chamber.

    You can PM me whenever you need info,

    we have reamers and dies..Ed
    Last edited by hubel458; 01-02-2015 at 02:17 AM.

  16. #36
    Slug Master
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    Info- I have figured a way to get barrels and adapters done quicker

    is to ream them here, as long as we have lots of barrel, so a guy could

    get a short section chambered from us and then make it adapt to his

    PTRD chamber. It would be strong chromolly barrel steel big enough

    diameter to make adapter. Ed

  17. #37
    Boolit Master



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    Good read,but my shoulder hurts from looing at the pictures.That looks like it coulg shoot through an Elephant from stem to stern.
    Are my kids/grandkids more important than "o"'s kids, to me they are,darn tooting they are!!! They deserve the same armed protection afforded "o"'s kids.
    I have been hoodwinked but not by"o"
    In God we trust,in "o" never trust
    Support those that support the Constitution and the 2nd Amendant

  18. #38
    Slug Master
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    quote-''from stem to stern''

    Well maybe some expansion so as to go halfway and dump all
    energy in critter and knock it down.And make the
    internal damage cavity as big as possible..Ed

  19. #39
    Slug Master
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    Here is picture, nice cast bullet I like for the 585HE and 24ga FH.
    It is .585" diameter and 650 gr and these particular ones are a
    hard lead alloy, plus they've been heatreated. They are about as
    hard as copper jacketed softs. These have a flat base, and
    fairly streamlined..

    But to penetrate good and do great damage to game or target they
    can be soft lead and hollowbase like Minie Bullets. Here is picture
    of timber drilled through with .585 soft lead Minie from 585HE.
    Picture is the back of 6x6 timbers where Minie bullets came out. Ed


  20. #40
    Slug Master
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    In Canada there are 3 guys there now setting up 585HEs,
    and one setting up 24ga FH. Another friend setting up a 585HE
    handed out a bunch of cases and info sheets at the SCI convention.
    We are getting some more reamers made. Some more dies sent
    here. Another pallet load of cases coming.
    Here is picture of a light spitzer bullet in the 24ga FH case,
    will work in 585 also. Good for hunting and medium range
    target work.

    Here is picture of 585HE we did in the FBW with regular two
    piece stock.We put a tenon on the forearm to wedge into the
    front of the action below the barrel and a tight barrel band
    on the front. Ed


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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check