Has anybody made a diesel gun?

[theperfessor]

A diesel engine works by compressing air rapidly in a confined space, which raises the air temperature, then an injector squirts in a measured amount of fuel that vaporizes and ignites to create pressure against a piston.

Anybody ever apply this to a real weapon? I can remember putting 3-in-1 oil in a Daisy BB gun chamber and occasionally getting a much sharper crack out of the muzzle.

A diesel will run off of a lot of different fuels. How about shooting all afternoon with some cast bullets and a can of corn oil or leftover french fryer grease!

I would imagine that most air gun technology would apply.

[SciFiJim]

Hmm, I would think the oil would have to be a booster fuel, with the primary force being compressed air.

Maybe something like a breach loader that after placing the boolit and oil in the chamber, a nozzle or nipple swings into and locks into place.

Compressed air could be supplied by a pumping lever on the gun or an external source like a scuba tank.

I am thinking something something like the large bore air guns available today only boosted.

[waksupi]

Very interesting concept. I do hope it piques someone's curiosity enough for them to pursue an answer!

[starmac]

Wear welding gloves, the compressed air has to be pretty hot to ignite diesel IIRC 500 degrees.

[TXGunNut]

I can see this working better for a machine gun or a cannon, not for firing one well-aimed shot from a conventional shoulder-fired weapon. Getting combustion timed to a sear release would probably result in a very long "lock time" and compressing the gas would require a pretty stout spring...machinery to make all that work would be a bit complicated and possibly bulky but it sounds like fun.

[xs11jack]

The more volatile the fuel, the easier it is to ignite. Oil would not be the best candidate. That is why hair spray is used in potato cannons. What about alcohol? Say 91 %?
Ole Jack

[Bzcraig]

Ok, you guys have too much time on your hands! Get back to work!

[starmac]

Yea it would down right suck for your diesel to gell up while you had your sights on that trophy buck. lol

We used accetylene and oxygen in them potato guns. lol

[GaryN]

I know I have had my spring piston air rifle diesel occasionally when I put too much oil on the piston. It said it would do that right in the instruction manual. I don't think it would be that hard for some engineer type to come up with something that would work.

[Gray Fox]

DARPA has been working on liquid propellant for artillery guns for 20 years or so. I haven't read anything about possible success, though.

[theperfessor]

I don't think it would be hard to make one work. I think it would be hard to make one that would be user friendly, ie make it light, simple, easy to use, etc. The possible performance could easily exceed a basic airgun.

[Just Duke]

I worked on a project with a couple other engineers. Gas does not provide a steady and consistent pressure going out the barrel. It's basically a quick fhart. Powder continually provides pressure until the projectile leaves the barrel.

[Bob in Revelstoke]

Probably 30 or 40 years ago Daisy came out with a rifle that fired a bullet with hot air the was produced by a spring powered piston forcing air through a venturi tube which then produce sufficient heat to ignite a solid propellant affixed to the rear of the bullet. The rifle was expensive for it time as was the ammunition. I can't recall its name but they are now collectors items. The same principal could possibly be used for a liquid fuel but metering would likely be a problem. I can recall putting 3 in 1 oil in a Red Ryder BB gun. It would "diesel" and produce erratic velocity and smoke, which was the main thing. Anything is possible, but would the expense be worth it?

[Swamp Man]

Why bother when we have Big Bore PCP air guns already? Just build up on that type of platform by adding extra air chambers or higher air pressure.

[Dan Cash]

Binary fuel/liquid propellant experimental weapons date back to at least WWII. Desireable as the propellant is non combustable/explosive until mixed in the weapon's chamber. Controlling the mixture and regulating the thrust has been the problem hindering the development.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I worked on a project with a couple other engineers. Gas does not provide a steady and consistent pressure going out the barrel. It's basically a quick fhart. Powder continually provides pressure until the projectile leaves the barrel.

I am not an engineer, but this was my exact initial thought...getting consistancy would be nearly impossible...Varying factors in the makeup of the combustion air would be another big problem.

[429421Cowboy]

Probably 30 or 40 years ago Daisy came out with a rifle that fired a bullet with hot air the was produced by a spring powered piston forcing air through a venturi tube which then produce sufficient heat to ignite a solid propellant affixed to the rear of the bullet. The rifle was expensive for it time as was the ammunition. I can't recall its name but they are now collectors items. The same principal could possibly be used for a liquid fuel but metering would likely be a problem. I can recall putting 3 in 1 oil in a Red Ryder BB gun. It would "diesel" and produce erratic velocity and smoke, which was the main thing. Anything is possible, but would the expense be worth it?

I believe that was the Daisy V/L Caseless ammo system, in my 1972 Herters catalog it is listed at $1.05 for 100 29 grain bullets and a non corrosive priming system. Seems like kind of a neat plan but must have went pretty much nowhere.

[10x]

you may want to look at this
http://www.mekanizmalar.com/diesel_pile_driver.html

[roysha]

One of the reasons the VL went nowhere was that Daisy was not a licensed firearms manufacturer and the gestapo (BATF) shut them down after about 18,000 rifles were made. I have one and a couple boxes of ammo. Needless to say, when the ammo is gone I will have a wall hanger.

Just a word about dieseling, or worse, detonation, when using a conventional springer; this practice can destroy seals in very little time. The reason the seal in the the VL (for the designer Von Langenhoven [sic]) was not damaged was because of a valving system that shut off the gasses to the seals. It is really quite ingenious and I am a bit surprised someone has not resurrected it in one form or another, especially as some type of repeater since there is no need for extractor or ejector. The propellent pellet is quite sturdy, at least my experiments indicate such, so the rounds would survive the feeding function

[HARRYMPOPE]

I had a Hatsan that came from the factory with a compression chamber soaked with oil.the thing cracked like a 22 and flames came out the barrel.seal was gone in less than 100 shots.I took it apart and the seal just plain melted.