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Thread: The "Inscrutable" Cast Softpoint EXPANSION TEST

  1. #1
    On Heaven's Range

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    The "Inscrutable" Cast Softpoint EXPANSION TEST

    This post is the introduction to a firing test to be carried-out within a week. I'm pretty confident of the timing, since most of the ammo is loaded, the recovery box is complete, and the 'stopping medium' is identified and available.

    This is purely a test to see how my cast softpoints compare for terminal expansion with a bullet whose performance I know intimately ON GAME ANIMALS. This "control" bullet is the .30-caliber 180-grain Nosler Partition, and it will be fired into the box at 2500 fps to represent the impact velocity from a .300 or .30-06 at some distance off the muzzle. Comparing how it looks from the box, to how it looked when recovered from moose and caribou, should give me an inkling of how well or poorly the cast softpoints will fare against animals. Bullshop's recent experience on a moose with a 50/50 (soft/hard) softpoint is also an invaluable clue (it was AWESOME!).

    ALL the bullets to be tested are built on a 1/3-soft to 2/3-WW (harder) formula, and all are aircooled from the mould. This is subject to assessment and change if needed, but I believe it's close to the right proportions.

    The loads are picked to reflect realistic field impact speeds, although in the case of the .416 Rigby I have loaded both a muzzle-velocity-impact test (365@2050 fps) AND a lower-speed test at 1700 fps to see how a bit of distance might affect things.

    Right now, the list to be tested includes:

    -311299 at 1800 fps

    -.338-220 LEE at 1800 fps, with several identical rounds to test the consistency of the expansion

    -.416-365 RCBS at 2050 fps, several rounds to check consistency as in .338 above

    -.416-365 at 1700 fps

    -.459 LEE 420-grain hollow-base at 1500 fps (my chosen max speed for the Shiloh .45-70 in most of my shooting)

    -.459 SAECO #021GC spirepoint, 420 grains at 1500 fps for the same reason. I'm very curious to see how the spirepoint will upset, compared to the round-nosed Lee bullet. The lower velocity may prove interesting vis-a-vis expansion or not, as well.

    If time permits, I may expand this list a bit....I'd like to fire the .45-70s at 1800 or so just for all you Marlin .45-70 fans, for one thing. Perhaps some water-quenched softpoints for direct comparison may be added, if I can find time to cast a few.

    The speeds above were chosen to reflect the impact speed at practical ranges. The .30 and .338 are very likely to be loaded for CAST-BULLET hunting at muzzle velocities over 2000 fps, so 1800 fps should show what the bullet will do from 100 yards or so.

    Now, the test:

    The recovery box is made of plywood on a frame of 1x2 lumber, glued- and screwed-together with drywall screws no more than about four inches apart on all seams. It's one foot square and five feet long. The 'entry' port has a six-inch circular opening which is covered with a sheet of 1/4" gum rubber sheeting, which should be capable of sealing-up so tightly after bullet passage that no leakage will occur. The back end of the box has a 1-inch-thick pad of the same material, which should stop anything getting that far with considerable gentleness and no damage (I don't think any bullet will reach this rubber). All seams are heavily caulked inside the box with 100% silicone.

    After seeing the explosive effect of the .416 softpoints on water jugs in an earlier test, I have no intention of tightly sealing the plywood lid. Instead, the lid is mounted with eight carriage bolts with their heads INSIDE the box, and the nuts and washers above the lid arranged to allow the lid at least one inch of free travel upwards. I hope this will allow sufficient pressure release while minimizing the loss of the stopping medium.

    Ah, yes: the stopping medium, and the reason for "inscrutable" in the title....the stopping medium is a RICE SLURRY!

    Reasons:

    -rice is absolutely consistent, from batch to batch, and thus any additional tests can be considered to be comparable to this one. Also, it is AVAILABLE, even in small-town Nevada.

    -in slurry form with enough water to just form a layer on top of the expanded rice, there will be no cavities left in the medium after the passage of each bullet. The slurry will fill in any temporary cavity and the bullet will just sink to somewhere below its ballistic trajectory. The following bullets will positively not encounter any voids in the medium. This is NOT the case in such things as wetpack newsprint, for example.

    -testing has already shown that even in cold water, the rice is fully 'hydrated' and expanded after three hours of soaking. I will have a reserve supply of already-expanded rice on hand to replace whatever gets blown out of the box by bullets....and I'll fire the heaviest-hitting rounds last, just in case.

    -all I'm asking is that my medium should present more resistance to bullet passage than plain water, and the rice will surely do that. Other possible materials considered were spuds and pinto beans, but rice is a good bit less-expensive. Even so, I'm figuring on needing at least 80 pounds of rice, which comes to about $34, plus maybe $40 for the box ....this isn't gonna be a cheap bullet test! The box will weigh around 400 pounds when ready for tests. It'll sit on the tailgate of my pickup for the shooting.

    IMPORTANT: I am NOT saying that this is a realistic test to determine what my softpoint bullets will look like after encountering an animal! This is an exercise to see how MY bullets compare in a known medium to a superb game bullet, the performance of which is well-known and familiar to me, personally. Please don't try to draw conclusions here about my motives or relative sanity....please. (I already KNOW I'm a terminal nut-case, and don't really need the reminders. I just do what the loudest voice in my head tells me...)

    Stay tuned for updates.
    Regards from BruceB in Nevada

    "The .30'06 is never a mistake." - Colonel Townsend Whelen

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Very interesting Bruce. You've got alot of calibers covered too. Using a Partition as your benchmark is good also. If you can get a home cast slug to perform any wheres near as well, I will be very impressed! Enough so I will have to try making some myself.

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    This sounds like a great test and I look forward to reading your results, just please don't shoot your truck. If I placed a target on my tailgate I'd sneeze or something and be buying new taillights for sure.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Sounds like a ton of information to digest once you are all done. Nicely thought out too.
    Reading can provide limited education because only shooting provides YOUR answers as you tie everything together for THAT gun. The better the gun, the less you have to know / do & the more flexibility you have to achieve success.

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    bruce i have some 500 rcbs rf and 540 ballictic cast wfngcs cast out of #2 with a pure nose. If you are interested in a handfull of each to test let me know. These are allready sized to .459 if that would work for you. Pm me your address if you want to give it a try.

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    Boolit Bub
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    Rotonal sp

    Haveyou figured the impact difference due to rotonal speed between the high and lower velocity loads? Bob B

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    Bruce, this sounds like a fun test. Who says there are no mad scientists around anymore?

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Excellent idea BruceB!

    I have done a little informal expansion testing and the media is always a problem due to consistency, repeatability, availability and price. I've Tried the usual ~ water, wet sawdust, end grain wood, wet paper and finally the Bullet Test Tube which works well but is expensive and tedious and only allows one shot with anything but .22 or maybe other mild smallbore.

    Your rice idea is excellent and I will be looking forward to seeing your results.

    Longbow

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    Excellent!!! I wanna be there!!!
    I had an idea to use bread doe for a similer test but everytime I get a 50lb sack my family eats it up.
    I was thinking that a big sausage made from a truck or tractor inertube filled with bread doe should stop most boolits. The rubber would act much like hide and the doe like soft tissue. Could be seasoned to tast with some bones. Have never taken it farther than just a thought though. There's gonna be many of us tuned in to this testing. I would shove my way to the front to be there and see if I could. It does sound like a chore getting it all together but I bet this is a chore you are gonna have fun with.
    BIC/BS

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    I suggest thin cardboard placed every foot will show you a print of the bullets passage without any other affects. Great fun and learning. Gianni
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

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    Bruce, you remain one of my heroes. Gotta meetcha someday!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceB View Post
    the stopping medium is a RICE SLURRY!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullshop View Post
    I had an idea to use bread dough.
    OH, NO! Did you guys HAVE to mention FOOD?

    After a few suggestions about bullet lube ingredients, you see speculation about everything from axle grease to snake oil.

    Now that you guys have opened a new Pandora's box, it'll be everything from cornmeal to meatloaf!
    Quote Originally Posted by BruceB View Post
    It'll sit on the tailgate of my pickup for the shooting.
    At least you'll be able to simulate shots at standing game...and animals in motion.
    CM
    Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

  13. #13
    Boolit Mold
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    You might consider placing the recovery box on a sheet of thick polyethylene, with the poly sheet edges elevated slightly. That way you might spend less time cleaning up. Or it could be easier to recover the stopping medium between shots and reuse it. Or if the recovery box gets blown apart. You may have considered this already. Might not be fun to have to wash a load of rice slurry off/out of your truck. Don't ask me how I know ...

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Bruce,

    This sounds like an excellent way to compare bullet expansion.

    I do however have some concerns about leaving the bullet trap on the tailgate of your truck. Is there anyway you could carry your slurry in five gallon buckets, or possibly a fifty five gallon barrel?

    I have a vision of you coming back from the desert with a tailgate warped from hydrostatic shock.

    Plus we all know about Murphy's law........


    Robert

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    I am anticipating unexpected consequences at the first shot, and would very much appreciate video posted on Utube!

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    Boolit Grand Master leftiye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT Gianni View Post
    I suggest thin cardboard placed every foot will show you a print of the bullets passage without any other affects. Great fun and learning. Gianni
    Yeah, partitions of something that doesn't dissolve in water! Otherwise you're gonna need a metal detector!
    We need somebody/something to keep the government (cops and bureaucrats too) HONEST (by non government oversight).

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  17. #17
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    So, here I sit at work, with plenty of time to consider the many good points being raised.

    Hydrostatic shock is a definite factor. When I tested the .416 Rigby with cast softpoints two years ago, there were eight one-gallon el-cheapo jugs of supermarket water lined up on a fir 2x6 which was lying across a concrete benchrest. On the first shot, the closest jugs went at least 20 feet in the air, with the water itself spraying higher than that. On later inspection, the 2x6 had been split for at least six feet along its length. This is why the .416 hunting load (2050 fps) will be the LAST load tried into the box.

    The rice slurry, being thicker, shouldn't fly about with quite as much enthusiasm as the water did, and the moveable lid should allow venting of a good part of the pressure. I like the idea of a plastic wrap, but I'll use a smallish blue tarp to contain the ejecta. Good idea.

    My ol' F150 is sort of a beater truck, and the inside sheetmetal of the tailgate is already dished-in by some misfortune which happened before I owned it. I'm gonna place the recovery box on a wide plank across the tailgate, spanning the dished-in area, to give the plywood bottom some even support.

    Gianni's mention of partitions in the box got me thinking (dangerous at the best of times). It would be difficult to sort out the various bullet-holes in the partitions (which would indeed have to be waterproof) unless they were changed after every shot. No thanks. What Gianni's idea DID create in my fevered imagination was the concept of expanding the test to include the distance of each bullet's penetration! By placing 1x2 crossmembers along the bottom of the box at six-inch intervals, I can make "compartments" into which the bullets will fall after stopping, and hence have their movements traced.

    Even if the bullets don't sink to the bottom immediately after stopping, mild side-to-side rocking of the box after the shooting's over WILL cause the bullets to sink straight down for "location mapping". This will be helped along if I bail out about half of the slurry before agitating the box. Rocking a 400-pound box will be tougher than rocking one of half that weight.

    I should mention that every bullet is easily identifiable, by weight, diameter, and/or being clearly marked with an electric engraver. For instance, the 1700-fps .416s are marked "17" both on the gascheck AND under the gas-check, on the base, in case the check gets lost along the way. Any UN-marked .416 will obviously be the 2050-fps bullets.

    The further this goes, the better I like the ability of a slurry-type substance to "repair itself", allowing multiple rounds to be fired into the mix without worrying about successive bullets finding cavities left by the preceding ones. It occurs to me that adding some gelatin or other stuff to the mix to get a thicker, syrupy texture which still repairs itself, might be worth a try in the future.

    I can see that I'd best prepare some sort of organized form upon which to enter data from this expedition.

    Naturally, I intend to have some technical help in getting photos posted on this thread. I'm getting rawther excited about all this. Thanks for the input!
    Last edited by BruceB; 11-04-2007 at 03:07 AM.
    Regards from BruceB in Nevada

    "The .30'06 is never a mistake." - Colonel Townsend Whelen

  18. #18
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    If the slury is thick enough to retard the dropping of each projectile,will not these same projectiles be in danger of becoming "secondary" projectiles?
    Be safe now.
    Pepe Ray
    The way is ONLY through HIM.

  19. #19
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    Bruce, The original idea was Bob Hagels and he would pull the cardboard between each shot reasoning that few test bullets would be shot. He also used 1"x2" or 2"x2" as guides for the cardboard. His medium should test near to yours as it was wet sawdust and sand every foot with 1/4" plywood seperating the sand from the sawdust. Gianni
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    Sounds like a far more intelligent test than the one I used to test a 340 Weatherby. We used a frozen steer out at my friends farm. It froze to death out in the field, so we figured why not use it for bullet testing? We thought we could chop out the bullets with an axe. We thought wrong. You should have far less trouble recovering yours, but I think the partition idea that others have mentioned is certainly worth some thought.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check