Bushnell TRS-25 Red Dot Optic.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have been talking about these red Dot sights a lot on different threads for a while now. I got my first one about 2 years ago and mounted it on my Kel Tec SU16CA .223 carbine. It has performed flawlessly so far, and by so far, I mean about 1200 rounds and two Front Sight Rifle Classes, as well as numerous local 3 gun shoots, with no shift in zero.

Liked the optic so well I bought another one for my AR 15 when I outfitted it earlier this year. Once again, flawless operation.

So I bought another one and installed it on my Mini 14 with the primary intention of having the same sight on all of my .223 Carbines, and if you consider the ultimate defensive use of these types of guns, having the same sighting system on all the guns does make some sort of sense.

I removed that sight from the Mini to design a hinged mount for my Kel-Tec Sub 2000, but when Midway offered the sights at $84.95 with free shipping in this months flyer I had to buy two more. They arrived yesterday and I reinstalled one on my MINI 14 last night, and bore sighted with a laser cartridge. It was reasonably close.

Today I shot Long Range Silhouette with my RGS 77 and shot abysmally, however at the end of the shoot we generally blaze away and shoot up any extra ammo we have left.

I instead took out the Mini 14 and started blazing away at 200 meter chickens offhand. After a few elevation corrections I was on target and hitting chickens I actually hit 3 of them which was the same number of targets I hit all day with the Scout rifle with a 3x9 Leupold.

The Red Dot was easy to get on target with and the ones I missed were all close misses. Mind you this was offhand, not off a rest.

Off a rest I could hit with every shot, and have proved this many times with the Kel-Tec.

So Now I have 5 of them! I got the first three from Dillon for $90 each, and the last two from Midway on sale for $84.95 with free shipping til the end of this month (Oct 2013).

These are the primary sighting systems on all of the Carbines.

The fifth one is for the RGS77 since out to 300 yards it is much faster than a scope or iron sights. I will use it as a secondary sighting system for when I decide to use the gun for 3 gun comps.

It must be stated that I am not some Hi mucky muck pro-shooter, who gets all of his equipment supplied to him. I have to buy and maintain my own stuff. I have only shot in local shoots with seriously novice shooters. Occasionally someone good shows up and usually they are much younger and fresh from Afghanistan, but I still place well enough to keep coming back. Sometimes I'm in the top 2 or 3.

These simple, inexpensive optics are so well made and worth the money it is almost criminal. I wouldn't have 5 of them if they were junk!

Best Bang for the Buck in a small Red Dot optic out there. I'm not the only one who feels this way. Read the online reviews, they are nearly 100% positive. Aimpoint has a similar product but it is nearly $500, and there can't be $400 worth of difference! As far as reliability If I need more reliability I can easily carry 2 of these both sighted in on the same gun.

I would not hesitate to mount one of these sights on a Lever Action Carbine, and for the things you would use one of those guns for, the Red Dot sight is the best suited optic there is . Target Acquisition is so much faster than Iron Sights it is not even close.

Did I mention these things weigh a whopping 3.2 oz. and mount directly to any Picatinny rail with one screw.

Randy

[garym1a2]

I have one on my AR15 Blackout I made, its a great red dot for the price. Each of my brothers have one also and like theirs.

[Dutchninja]

I had two, have only one now. The first one worked fine but I did notice the glass on the back side was not installed correctly and it haloed a red arch around the edges. I had that on an AR pistol and it took the abuse of the bolt slamming back rather well. The other one I have is on a Sterling. The Iron sights on the rifle were welded a bit off by Wiselite and I wanted to dial it in better. After looking everywhere for an aftermarket scope mount, I found that one of the additional rail sections of one of my Midwest industries free float rail fit into the holes in the shroud just about perfectly. Put that on and then slapped another TRS-25 on top and its even more fun to shoot. Even better was the second one i got, the glass, although not clear, was installed correctly. Also, the batteries from of the dollar store LED votive candles work well for replacements.

[freebullet]

I had been wondering about those. Similar aim point is 600$ eek. Anyway cabelas has them for 69.99 with free shipping.

[garym1a2]

Aimpoints are much better and Mil-spec reliable. The TRS-25 great for me for target or hunting or 3gun. but, if my life depended on it than I would get aimpoint.

I had been wondering about those. Similar aim point is 600$ eek. Anyway cabelas has them for 69.99 with free shipping.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I would just carry a second TRS-25 already sighted in so I could switch them out if one failed. Aimpoints fail too! and you probably aren't going to have a $600 backup if it does.

Another little tidbit here about these sights. The front lens is deliberately installed a little cockeyed. I called Bushnell to inquire about sending mine back and the CS guy didn't even hesitate to explain when I told him the problem.

They are intentionally installed a little off kilter to defeat indirect reflections of stray light inside the tube, and to reflect the dot into the center of the field of view... It must be the truth since everyone of my 5 of these sights is done exactly the same way.

It is a zero magnification optic the front and rear lenses are simply flat pieces of glass. The dot emitter is in the lower right hand side of the tube at the rear. The top left of the front lens is tilted back in to counter act this positioning of the emitter.

If the emitter was positioned in the center then the front lens would be tilted back at the top center and would pick up stray light from all directions above the gun and directly into your field of view. As it sits the lens reflects stray light into the sides of the tube which don't reflect at all.

Randy

[TXGunNut]

As you know, Randy, I bought one of these little jewels based on your recommendation in another thread. Worked very well on my 336 Marlin in 30-30. I read the reviews about the halo around the dot but discovered that it's not noticeable under field conditions, only notice it indoors. I liked it so well I ordered another one, Larry extended the sale thru yesterday. Bought a riser block to mount it on my black gun. I no longer have use for a patrol rifle so this sight suits me just fine.

[kbstenberg]

Randy how big is the dot. Mine is 3moa (Ultra Dot) I have it mounted on my RRH 44M. But it seems to big for any critical distant accuracy. Like Coyotes at 200y.

[Artful]

http://www.bushnell.com/all-products...ot/trs-1x-25mm
Lists as 3 MOA dot as well - you have to consider that the dot is relative to distance from eye.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Also the dot size is relative to the level of intensity you have the knob set at. I can run mine at $5-8 in bright sunlight. The lower it is set the smaller the dot.

I shot my Mini 14 with the newly mounted Red Dot on it yesterday in a 3 gun shoot. I was easily able to hit a 8x10" steel plate at 190 yards.

But the real up side if the speed of target acquisition.

A Coyote at 200 yards would not be a very hard target to hit.

Randy

[BruceB]

Randy;

Do you see this Bushnell TRS as a viable set-up for a defensive rifle? My daughter lives alone in her house in Reno, and one of her "tools" is a Mini-14. The ability to use the sight in poor lighting conditions is attractive IF:

- it's EASY to turn "on" in a hurry, and

-the battery life is sufficient to trust the sight to be "ready" for months at a time.

What say ye? (She also has her 9mms, K-38, Kahr .45 and an 870 "riot gun" with open rifle sights.) Her shooting experience extends all the way up to (and including) my .416 Rigby, so she's no shrinking violet!

Once I get re-located to Reno myself, I hope to get her to the range more frequently than she manages now.

Note: Right now the Mini-14 has a 2-7X scope sight, which is certainly effective in daylight even at close range.... but not much use in the dark. #4 Buck does have its charms, though.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Bruce: Yes I do, I see it as much more viable than any other sighting system you can afford.

I figured this out on my Kel-Tec SU16 when I got it set up a couple of years ago. With a combination of a light and the red dot you are very well prepared for dealing with night threats. I have them both on the Kel-Tec and the AR. I have a dot on the Ruger but no light.

Even without the light if you can pickup a silhouette of the target you can place the dot on it and fire. With a light you can get on target so fast it is not funny. I recommend a light like a Streamlight TLR-1S with a momentary contact switch so you can flip the light on, shoot, and release the switch, so that the light doesn't trace a path back to you as you lower the gun.

On the Mini you'd have to attach a short piece of Picatinny rail (5 slot Magpul) to the left side of the fore end and then operate the light with your support hand thumb. (Assuming she is not left handed like you.) If the sling is mounted to the side of the rifle like mine is then it makes it possible to attach the rail segment to the bottom of the fore end.

As far as turning it on and off. There is a big knob on the sight which has settings from 0 to 11. A quick twist of this knob is all it takes to turn the thing on. The battery a CR2032 flat battery (very common battery) is what the unit uses for power. You actually do have to turn it off or it will kill the battery in a few days. When I did my Front Sight Rifle Class earlier this year I left the sight on during the day for 4, 8 hour days and that battery is still in there and running just fine.

As long as you turn the sight off when you are done with it. I left one of mine on once and it killed the battery after about a week. However I just picked up the one on my desk and it was left on at position 5 for the last two days and there was no dot present. I turned the knob and low and behold the dot reappeared at normal intensity. Maybe it has got some kind of a motion sensor like the Leupold VX-R I have. I just got the instruction booklet out and looked thru it and there is no mention of how long the batteries last. I keep a spare with the gun anyway.

All of my .223's and my Scout are in soft cases that have all of the magazines and support equipment for that gun in the case. This makes them a Grab and go type of affair. The Kel-Tec even has 2 loaded 10 round mags in the buttstock so it is even more a grab and go set up.

What I know about these optics is that IMHO they are the best bang for the buck out there for this type of optic. And at $90 you can't go wrong. Also at $90 you can afford to have a spare in case something does happen.

I hope this helps with her setup. Just for your information I just mounted one to my Scout Rifle as well. will be sighting it in on Wednesday.

[BruceB]

Excellent! Thanks for your extensive commentary. I just saved this thread to "Favorites" for her to read when she arrives for a Thanksgiving visit later this week.

The Bushnell sure seems like a far more practical alternative than Trijicons etc for those of us on limited incomes!

I wonder if one of Wiljen's lights would suffice for this job?

[W.R.Buchanan]

Bruce: It's all about getting the most for your money and still doing the job. I'm pretty sold of these optics. If you read the reviews around the internet and on Midway and Brownell's and other places that sell these, you see the same enthusiasm repeated everywhere.

The advantage of the Streamlight TLR1S is that it is around $100 and it has a "strobe function." In the night it completely disorients the person that it is pointed at and gives you that extra second or so to make up your mind if you want to shoot or not.

Going from pitch black to having this thing blinking in their face makes it so they can't do anything meaningful until they re establish their bearings. This takes a few seconds at best. Time you can use to identify and shoot a would be intruder or not as you see fit.

Not familiar with Wiljens lights, but whatever you put on there needs a momentary contact type of switch so you can turn it off before you lower the gun. Otherwise the light just traces at trail right back to you and gets you shot.

Randy

[Lloyd Smale]

they might be a good bang for the buck in the 100 dollar range but so is tasco in the 100 dollar scope range. Is a tasco as good as a leupold scope? IS a bushnell as good as an aimpoint? Hell no! I once saw a thing on youtube where some reps from aimpoint were standing on concrete shooting ars with aimpoint micros on them. They were about 10 yards apart. they took off there aimpoints and skipped them across the concrete to each other then skipped them back. Mounted them back on the guns and they not only worked but were still spot on the poa they were sighted too. try that with a lesser sight and youd be picking up lenses. Sure you dont normaly treat an sight like that but it gives you peice of mind if you ever drop your gun in the middle of a hunt as id bet just about everyone here has done. They also give you the option of leaving your sight on 24/7 Even my comp 2 will last 2 years left on. I allways leave the aimpoint on my home defense gun on. I dont want to fumble with switches in the middle of the night or under the pressure of a home invasion. I own one of the bushenels myself. Its on a 1022. Its a good sight for that gun. Personaly i think for another 50 bucks a vortex strikefire is a much better sight. Its the bottom line sight id put on an ar. Ive got two one on a smith ar22 and the other on one of 5.56 ars and if they had the same battery life as an aimpoint theyd be on more of my guns. So if you think that spending more for a leupold scope over a tasco is a good investment then its no differnt bucking up for an aimpoint. To me spending more for an aimpoint is an ever smarter thing to do then the leupold. Worse case senerio with the tasco scope is you loose the oportunity for a nice buck. Worse case with the bushnell is you or someone in your family might get killed.

[TXGunNut]

Good points, Lloyd. My second TRS-25 is on a big brown truck due tomorrow but I'd never put them in the same class as the Aimpoint or the other top-shelf dot sights. My point is that I don't much care for or trust ANY dot sight in a self-defense situation but I think these Bushnell sights are cheap, fun, easy to use and surprisingly reliable.
OTOH I've had a good run of luck with Tasco and other less expensive optics but looking back I've found the Leupold VX-3's may very well represent the best value for a rifle that will see lots of use over the coming years. Time will tell with the TRS-25 but it's beginning to wear down my prejudice against this type of sight and it's letting me shoot rifles I'd have difficulty shooting otherwise.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Lloyd: Define "as good as?"

"As good as," is not and easy thing to quantify when you start comparing apples to oranges. Really if they both do the same job then technically speaking, one is as good as the other.

When I say "best bang for the buck," what I mean is the value of the product is well above what the cost is. Value is defined as accomplishing a task to a certain degree, for a certain amount of money.

Here is another way to look at it. Would you put a $2500 Nightforce Scope on a $700 rifle that you were going to hunt deer at less than 200 yards with? Most would say NO, simply because you can't extract $2500 worth of value from that optic used in that manner.

However if a $300 Leupold VX2 was mounted on that same rifle, used for that same purpose, a prudent individual would probably be able to extract that same $300 worth of service from that optic on the first hunt. I other words he would be getting his monies worth from the optic.

By the same token the longer that optic is used and remains serviceable the more value the user extracts from that purchase. In the case of a Leupold optic that could be a very long time indeed. Definitely good bang for the buck.

When you look at how we are using these optics, the value is well beyond the price. Your whole argument against these less expensive optics is based on the fact that they may fail at any point in time and that time will be when you need it most.

Anything may fail at any time. It is the nature of technology.

The front side of that point is that all things have a statistical probability of failure, the back side is that no one can predict when that failure will occur.

I have 3 of these sights in service and I am approaching 2500 total shots fired from three different guns none of which are particularly easy on optics. So far there has been no shifts in zero or failures of any kind, and I have an extra battery for the sight on each gun just in case.

Would I bet my life on these optics? Well I'd rather not bet my life on ANY optics, since iron sights are just so reliable.

But if I was pushed into the situation, Hell yes I'd trust these optics, I'm damn sure not going to be spending time questioning my equipment in the middle of a gun fight. But then what are the actual odds of me getting into a gun fight? Let alone one where I actually have one of my guns to fight with. I'd say those odds are approaching Zero.

Last Sunday I shot a 3 gun with my Mini14 and it's newly mounted TRS 25 which previously had been sighted in on a Clay Pigeon at 200 yards. I fired nearly 100 rounds thru that gun the day I sighted it in, and another 100 the day of the shoot. My hit percentage with that gun is over 95% over a variety of distances, target sizes, and stances.

Yesterday at Piru CA I wanted to refine my sighting for that gun on a paper target which revealed that I was about 1.5" left. after the correction, I hit a 8x10 steel target at 200 yards 19 times in a row off a rest. The gun is shooting about 2-2.5" at 100yds. with the red dot installed which is way better than I had expected.

If I can get this consistent level of performance out of a $90 optic mounted to a $600 gun, what more value could I expect from a $500 Aimpoint?

It is hard to argue against this logic. "Personal Preference" is the only other argument available, and that is less logical an argument than "bang for your buck." Believe me I understand Personal Preference, and I have quite a few nice things that I really can't justify owning any other way.

However when it comes to tools, I buy what gets the job done to my satisfaction in the most inexpensive way. I have high standards, since I am a craftsman by trade.

In this case a $90 Bushnell TRS-25 is the best way I have found for my uses.

Randy

[Taylor3006]

I have been looking for an inexpensive optic for my AR 10 untill I can save up for something really nice. Does anyone think the TRS 25 will hold up to the recoil of a 308?

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Taylor,

I stuck one on my P14 in 550 Gibbs last month. So far, so good. As soon as I finish my VZ-24 to 404Jefferys build it is going on there.

[Taylor3006]

Thanks Idaho SS, sounds like a decent optic at a decent price. Thanks