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Thread: .30 XCB wildcat, from scratch.

  1. #61
    Love Life
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    Quote Originally Posted by btroj View Post
    I
    Hopefully I will have a rifle next spring and can get going then.
    You better get on the ball!! I'm gathering anouther box-o-parts to send to Tim.

  2. #62
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    My box of parts is already AT Tim's. Well, all except a trigger. He got my 4 x 4 stock last week. Barrel and action are there already. Just need to send a trigger.

    I have high hopes for this set up. Should be plenty accurate enough to help with learning about lubes and coatings.

    Speaking of coatings, how clean are they?

  3. #63
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    They are quite clean.

    I may have missed it somewhere, but is this a long or short action cartridge?

  4. #64
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    I used a long action. It MAY fit in as short action but a long action will be better, allows use of longer rounds with certainty of being able to eject a loaded round.

    I used a Savage 112 that was a 22-250. I have almost as much int he barrel as I did that entire rifle! Scope is going to be worth more than the sum of the other parts. Leupould VX3 long range target 8.5 x 24, 30 mm tube. Nice scope.

  5. #65
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    Krieger+Leupold=more than most factory rifles total costs.

    I need to find an abused long action somewhere. Seems any action sold these days is $1,000,000,000. Funny thing is Cabelas has WHOLE Remington 700 rifles for sale cheaper than just a Remington 700 receiver from Brownells. Odd that one.

  6. #66
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    That is what I was thinking, find a beater Rem 700 at a pawn shop. Get it for 250 to 300 bucks and use the receiver.
    I know where I could get a Rem 700 for free but my FIL might frown on it.

  7. #67
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    Well crapola, you guys got me wondering what this new-ish cartridge would do in a Garand/M1A type platform so I guess maybe Tim's gonna get to raid my piggy bank! More exciting than a mail-order bride & alot cheaper to boot!!!
    An old Cherokee was teaching his grandson about life. "Inside me two wolves fight," he told the boy.
    "One is evil - he is anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity, resentment, lies, false pride, and ego. The other is good - he is joy, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, generosity, truth and faith. The same fight is inside you - and every other person, too."
    The grandson thought for a minute and asked,"Which wolf will win?"
    The old Cherokee replied, "The one you feed."

  8. #68
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    That's what this site'll do to you. You come in hoping to save money by learning to cast your own bullets, and you leave wondering what happened to all of your folding money!!

    So to set up for this cartridge I would need:
    Action
    Barrel
    30-06 dies cut down
    Either 30-06 or 270 brass to cut down

    Hmmm. I wonder what this'll do if I stuffed a 175 SMK in it. Be easer to get enough stank behind it to carry it to 1,000 and beyond without that nagging issue of cratered primers I get from the 308...

  9. #69
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    I am leaning towards sizing down 8x57 cases instead of using 270 or '06 brass. Forming will be simpler and the neck will need far less turning. Neck will be a tiny bit short but I can live with that.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Love Life View Post
    That's what this site'll do to you. You come in hoping to save money by learning to cast your own bullets, and you leave wondering what happened to all of your folding money!!

    So to set up for this cartridge I would need:
    Action
    Barrel
    30-06 dies cut down
    Either 30-06 or 270 brass to cut down

    Hmmm. I wonder what this'll do if I stuffed a 175 SMK in it. Be easer to get enough stank behind it to carry it to 1,000 and beyond without that nagging issue of cratered primers I get from the 308...
    If you're going to be shooting the SMK's, why not have me ream it to full 30-06 depth? Jacketed bullets puts you in a whole new speed bracket, and it would be a horible sin to shoot a jacketed bullet in this cartridge. It's like dating your sister: it just isn't done! LOL!
    Precision in the wrong place is only a placebo.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodsteel View Post
    If you're going to be shooting the SMK's, why not have me ream it to full 30-06 depth? Jacketed bullets puts you in a whole new speed bracket, and it would be a horible sin to shoot a jacketed bullet in this cartridge. It's like dating your sister: it just isn't done! LOL!
    Agree, and if you're going for speed and distance, you might as well go with an Ackley, Gibbs, or whatever your flavor of improvement...
    "When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat." - Ronald Reagan

  12. #72
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    this cartridge will fling copper just fine.
    the heavier 175's would limit velocity somewhat but the case will have a click more case capacity than the 308 and it's longer which helps cushion the primer brisance making a bit hotter primer work well with stick powders such as rl-19.

    it will also fit in a short action.
    you just need the throat adjusted [actually no you don't really] but it will feed and fit in a short action.
    Remington built their 6x57 cartridge on a short action, and ruger and win both built their 25x57 round on short actions.
    anyway the round won't be held to the 45-k a mauser round is, it and the brass will handle the same pressure as a 270 or 308 win will, as long as the rifle is up to it.
    the 7 mauser is a whole different animal when stoked to 55k, this round will be capable of that pressure also.

    changing the case to an Ackley improved will gain you another few grains of case capacity [5-6 sounds about right].
    my 7 icl Ackley has gone up to 55 grs of powder [real close to the 280 Remington] under a 140 gr bullet with no pressure signs and is stupid fast for a case this size. [52 gives me a velocity of 2875 at 10 feet with a rem 9-1/2 primer]
    the wifes standard uses 51 in 257+p [reduced capacity] brass for a velocity of 2750 with the same bullet using a federal 210 primer.
    Last edited by runfiverun; 10-09-2013 at 01:22 AM.

  13. #73
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    Going to any "improved" cartridge negates several of the initial benefits; A custom reamer would be needed (while goodsteel had a custom reamer made it was not really necessary as a "tight neck '06 match reamer, which is rentable, would also have done nicely), a custom set of loading dies would have been needed and the "improved" cartridges do not readily feed reliably from Mauser actions (M98s in particular).

    Shooting jacketed is always an option and given an appropriate barrel length it will do well to 1000 yards if not 1200 yards. Granted in a 28"+ barrel with a 14" twist the standard '06 chambering would be better for longer ranges out to 1400+ yards. However, my idea with the 14 or more probably the 16" twist in a heavy sporter 26" barrel on the M98 action is to shoot a 150 - 160 gr cast at 2700 - 2800 fps for deer/antelope/coyote hunting.

    Larry Gibson

  14. #74
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    Yep. I like the idea behind this cartridge. To me it seems it would be a "just enough" cartridge for my type of shooting. I can put some more stank behind the 175 SMK with out the unneccessary case capacity or recoil (not a recoil wimp, but why have it if not needed) of the 30-06 class of cartridges.

    I don't hunt anymore so guns I get nowadays are for fun, varminting, and pinging steel.

    I do happen to have a stock, bottom metal, and stuff for a SA hanging around waiting to answer a question that hasn't been asked yet.

  15. #75
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    OK, 82 posts later I'm actually going to try to shoot this thing today. Got the Long Range Precision Sighting System (as it's apparently being called now) installed and dialed-in to minute-of-switch-plate-screw on my loading room wall (I guess I need one of those Long Range Precision Tactical Boresighters). Spent all morning making ten cases. Now to extrapolate some load data, size some boolits, and see if she goes BANG!

    Gear

  16. #76
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    Dang, all morning to make 10 cases!

    Yeah, I will be ordering some 8x57 brass........

  17. #77
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    All morning to make 10 cases? All I can say is "wow"! I'm at a loss why it is so difficult?

    Larry Gibson

  18. #78
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    Larry, I made a few trial cases from 270 brass. It was a bunch of work. Push shoulder back, trim to length, anneal, turn, chamfer and deburr.
    If I didn't anneal it was almost impossible to turn the necks. Even after annealing ot was tough turning. Removing that amount of material is a bear, I ended up with pretty sore hands from it.

    I think the neck turning is the hardest part. The other stuff is pretty simple and easy.

    Using 8x57 cases to begin with would make the job far easier, much less material needs turning off. I don't think neck turners are designed to remove much over .002 at a time, or at least I'm not!

  19. #79
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    Resize in '06 die minus decapping rod.
    FL size in .30 XCB die.
    Trim to ~2.255" with chop saw.
    Rough deburr inside and out.
    Expand w/RCBS .309" M spud
    Ream doughnut with .308" reamer.
    Polish inside of neck w/320 sand paper.
    Trim to 2.244" (for starters).
    Outside turn to .0130" thickness.
    VLD chamfer and deburr.
    FL size.
    Expand and bell .001" with RCBS M spud.
    Decap.
    Clean primer pockets.

    All that took about 45 minutes for ten cases, but I have all told about 35 hours in setting up, making tools, modifying tools, trying different things, ruining about 40 cases, etc. I really wish the proper tools for this job were available, but the more I study the reloading tools available for match case prep, the more disgusted I become. Don't get me started on loading dies!

    I still need a better expander setup, the RCBS is fine but I have a lot of trouble with it bending necks. what I need is a sliding-sleeve arrangement to force the case straight in alignment with the spud. Once that's done, you don't necessarily have to have a sliding-sleeve seating system to seat the boolits straight, the case neck does it for you. Provided you haven't annealed them to death. I may pick up a Lyman 31R M die and turn down the step on the spud a bit and bush the bottom of the hole to .468", or pack it full of epoxy putty and run a fireformed case up into it.

    Anyway, I managed to cobble together ten rounds and get them fired in between rain squalls, so far it looks to be doing what it's supposed to. What I really need is a whole day at the 100-yard public range with my chronograph, about half a dozen powders, couple hundred boolits, and my hand press. That could have been yesterday if I'd been able to get this (*^&^%&^$%@#$ing brass made in time. Oh well.

    Gear

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by btroj View Post
    Larry, I made a few trial cases from 270 brass. It was a bunch of work. Push shoulder back, trim to length, anneal, turn, chamfer and deburr.
    If I didn't anneal it was almost impossible to turn the necks. Even after annealing ot was tough turning. Removing that amount of material is a bear, I ended up with pretty sore hands from it.

    I think the neck turning is the hardest part. The other stuff is pretty simple and easy.

    Using 8x57 cases to begin with would make the job far easier, much less material needs turning off. I don't think neck turners are designed to remove much over .002 at a time, or at least I'm not!
    .270 brass is thicker in the shoulder for some reason than commercial '06, I use it to make 7mm-08 with thicker necks because I can get the .0165" that most rifles require. '06 pushed back the same amount only gives about .015" reliably after turning. I'm only turning off about .0015" or so on these, most of that near the shoulder. They do clean up nicely, though.

    One thing that IS quite nice is having enough metal to work with, both thickness-wise and lengthwise. This thing has a LONG neck if you use all of the chamber. My .30Sil boolits only use half the neck, and I'm beginning to think that a longer-bodied boolit might be better for this cartridge. I'm running right around .0005" total neck clearance at the high spots (driving bands) and a little less at the throat entrance, about .0003" there with .3104" boolits. A controlled interference fit would be no problemo to achieve.

    Gear

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check