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Thread: Velocity threshold for cast rifle boolits.

  1. #61
    On Heaven's Range

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    So, amigo Al.... when does your book come out?

    I SWEAR you write just as well as ol' Skeeter (no small compliment, that) and you should maybe consider making some profit from the skill. Recluse wrote a superb book; why not you?

    I'm glad those softpoints are working for you, and reports from other members are backing you up. It's passing strange, how few people use the "search" function and still either ask about getting better expansion, or just remain in the dark about the softpoint possibilities with cast bullets.

    Oh, well...
    Regards from BruceB in Nevada

    "The .30'06 is never a mistake." - Colonel Townsend Whelen

  2. #62
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    That's a mighty kind compliment, Bruce. I think the world of Skeeter Skelton's work, and to have a posting compared in any way to his writing is quite a thing. Thank you!

    A book? Some of what I would have to say I can't talk about, and most of it I shouldn't anyway. Now, outdoors occurrences inspire me--big-azzed northern pike on 5-weight fly tackle WILL PROMPT COMMENTARY, and I have you to thank for making that dream trip and its sweet memories possible. A simple epiphany of presence, action, timing, rifle, ammo, and motivation culminated in the account of yesterday's encounter. If one element is missing, it's a non-event. But those prior sightings struck a chord within me, and by **** I want a rifle on board to enable such culminations!

    How this all relates to the RPM question would be too much of a reach to attempt such a linkage. I would strain a metaphor or sprain a simile; can't have that.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  3. #63
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    Thanks, Al. Enjoyed the read!
    It ain't rocket science, it's boolit science.

  4. #64
    Boolit Master sthwestvictoria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceB View Post
    It's passing strange, how few people use the "search" function and still either ask about getting better expansion, or just remain in the dark about the softpoint possibilities with cast bullets.

    Oh, well...
    Well i do request forgiveness but i have just used the forum search and google search but cannot see what the acronym BBSP translates to.
    ars longa, vita brevis

  5. #65
    Boolit Master

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    As with most threads i start, drift is not just expected, it is encouraged! Nice story AL. THANKS
    I'll be a nice to you as you'll let me be, or as mean as you make me be.

    Polite society started dying the day it was no longer necessary for rude men to physically defend themselves from the consquences of their actions or words.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by sthwestvictoria View Post
    Well i do request forgiveness but i have just used the forum search and google search but cannot see what the acronym BBSP translates to.
    BruceB Soft Point ing Method. It has been stickied on the site somewhere.
    Last edited by 9.3X62AL; 09-28-2013 at 02:15 AM.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  7. #67
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    This is funny.... it's also the first time that *I* have seen the term "BBSP". Y'all now must realize thathenceforth, a search for "BBSP" will direct us to THIS thread!

    To read about the softpointing method, go to the "Classics and Stickies" forum, where you will find a thread titled something like "BruceB's Softpoints (as of May 2009)".

    It should be near the top of Page Two on that forum...
    Regards from BruceB in Nevada

    "The .30'06 is never a mistake." - Colonel Townsend Whelen

  8. #68
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    I think we are also forgetting the heat generated at higher velocities. Push a lead bullet fast and you get more heat and this could cause stripping in the rifling if the fit isn't prefect. Softer lead will weaken more and allow stripping at higher velocities.

  9. #69
    I have some foundry type if you want to firm it up. I'll list it here as soon as I get the cred to do so.

  10. #70
    What about the influence of the lube? Hardness seems a reasonable concern but I would think different lubes might make a big difference.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by DanWalker View Post
    I shoot an alloy of 50/50 WW/range scrap, water dropped.
    what are you using for lube? While hardness seems a reasonable and popular concern I would also like to know what different lubes are used and what difference they make.

  12. #72
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    RPM part 16???? HA HA HA

    More like part 1,000+

    A simple search for RPM on this site=


    Search:
    Keyword(s): RPM


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    The biggest hurdles to RPM "limits and thresholds" are:
    1. your brain
    2. your alloy (which can be made " hunting tough and MALLBLE" without being made "hard")
    3. Powder selection/muzzlepressure for your barrel length

    A slow twist and low muzzle pressure is why Larry is Having Goodsteel build him the latest incarnation of the 308 Long Neck with a loooong barrel........he is at the point where he wants an easy rifle and he is having it built......I say to that....ATTABOY, bout friggin time.

  13. #73
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by meeesterpaul View Post
    what are you using for lube? While hardness seems a reasonable and popular concern I would also like to know what different lubes are used and what difference they make.
    More popcorn! (J/K)

    My own experience with lubes has been that Javelina Alox/beeswax in rifles runs out of effectiveness somewhere around 2000-2200 FPS, though my platform population isn't large enough to be making sweeping statements--we're talking about a dozen rifles in 30 caliber and larger, twist rates spanning 4 turns/meter to 3 turns/meter (1-9" to 1-13", roughly). To this end, I've bought a new Lyman 4500 and use Carnauba Red. I haven't fired extensive tests at higher velocities yet, but the loads running 1600-1800 that I have tried show fewer fliers and slightly tighter grouping. I have even less work with the smaller bores and Carnauba Red, but early outcomes on small lots are encouraging--and reinforce the use of Carnauba Red as an all-around rifle boolit lube.

    In handguns, there doesn't seem to be much performance difference between Javelina 50/50 and Carnauba Red. C/R works well, but doesn't seem to offer any particular advantage. Based on these preliminary results, Carnauba Red might make a better all-purpose or one-size-fits-all lube. If I limited myself to 1600-1800 FPS, the Javelina or other 50/50 lubes would likely do the trick.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  14. #74
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    We got RPM, now we have boolit lube, all we need now is some 6.5 and we have the makings for the perfect storm....neener.

  15. #75
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    You forgot to mention boolits alloyed with copper...........

    Gear
    You can't fix Stupid, but you can occasionally head it off before it hurts something. --Stephen Adams

    To universalize one's experience and state it as the norm is always thin ice on which to stand.--CharGar

    Being able to separate the wheat from the chaff has always been a valuable skill in all of life's activities. --Bwana


  16. #76
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by meeesterpaul View Post
    what are you using for lube? While hardness seems a reasonable and popular concern I would also like to know what different lubes are used and what difference they make.
    I tumble lube HOT (200 F) boolits with equal parts JPW and Liquid XLOX.
    I'll be a nice to you as you'll let me be, or as mean as you make me be.

    Polite society started dying the day it was no longer necessary for rude men to physically defend themselves from the consquences of their actions or words.

  17. #77
    Boolit Master


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    Sure hope getting all that off the chest makes you feel better.

    I have offered so many times I made it a long standing offer for any of you boys to show me how it's done (casting, loading and shooting cast bullets out 7 - 10" twists rifles at high velocity of 2200+ fps with linear accuracy of 2 moa or less out to 300 yards). I offer hospitality here or will gladly travel to your location. Any of you care to take me up on it? I'll be driving right by Kerrville, TX in February and March......Gear? I wouldn't hesitate driving to Michi-Braska Flatlands to learn from an obvious "expert" either....how about it? Or Tennessee area for our own "master" and his departed friend either......how about it bob? Sure would like to see how you "experts do it but I'm sure all we'll see is the usual negative response.......which tells it all......

    Larry Gibson

  18. #78
    I ask about the lubes out of curiousity (not experience) and wonder whether synthetic motor oils would allow higher velocities to function. Whether or not there is an advantage....I don't know... but may experiment if only to satisfy some curiousity. I'm intrigued at the thought of seeing an "old school 'lead' bullet" perform past expectations.

  19. #79
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    Well, I mean no disrespect to you Larry Gibson, Lord knows you've helped me out plenty and you have been spot on in more ways than not, but I really believe it can be done! The RPM theory just sounds too cut and dried to me, and seeing the janky barrels/rifles that most shooters have to work with, I am surprised that a cast boolit can be pushed to 2200 accurately.
    I agree that with a stock rifle, the RPM theory appears to work, and because that's all that 99% of the shooters out there will ever get to use, it may be a mute point for 99% of the shooters out there.
    However, I think that the reason the RPM theory exists, is because all the standard rifles out there, with a very few exceptions, damage a soft lead boolit before it gets out of the barrel. In fact, I have not met, or heard of very many precision toolroom machinists, let alone gunsmiths that truly understand precision and concentricity.
    At the pressures and speeds we are shooting, lead begins to act like silly putty, and any small misalignment can really have a detrimental effect on it as it is squirted out of the barrel. ie, what get's to the target is not the nice concentric boolit that dropped on the bench.
    Of course, I freely admit that is a theory I have.
    However, if I make it go, are you saying that you'll swing by my place for some trigger time? If that's the case, I may just have to get on the stick!
    You don't happen to travel with that shooting lab do you? I would love to see that baby in action!
    LOL!
    Tim Malcolm
    MBT custom rifles & gunsmithing
    www.goodsteelforum.com

    "He who is enslaved by the compass has freedom of the seas"

  20. #80
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    Larry

    You are more than welcome at my ranch-ette anytime you wanna stop in. You will have to sleep on the couch though....i turned the spare bedroom into an ammunition factory long ago. I am self-employed and I can have just about any day off I want with some advanced notice. Not an expert here by any means but this theoretical barrier has been pretty easy to get over for me as well as a few others in the area. All comes down to alloy, boolit design and powder selection....it really is quite simple in most toys I think. I have a .243 that is refusing to fall in line @ 3K+ but I might be able to whip it into shape also by the time you make it here.


    Mike

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check