Finish sporterizing a spanish mauser

[MBTcustom]

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but I gotta tell you that I wont build on Spanish mausers either SR or LR.
I just dont trust them, and many share my same view. Thats why they can be had so cheap.
Seems like every month there is somebody who asks me to do a build on a Spanish. Aint gonna happen.

Now, since you already have the rifle, and you have yout hat set to do this, at least take some good advice and dont run loads anywhere close to full pressure.

At this point, most people I tell this to start to, get defensive and start telling me that they have fired full pressure loads in their rifle, so it can obviously take it!
I just pick up a paper clip, straighten it, and then bend it.
I say "So like this paper clip could be bent without breaking? I bent it once and it took it no problem, so if it does it once, it must be good forever right?"
I straighten it, then bend it about ten more times and eventually it breaks in half.
"huh. Look at that. I guess if that was a rifle, you just blew your face off eh?"
A picture is worth 1000 words.

That's why I don't build on substandard actions. I don't want an action that's strong enough to take the pressure. I want an action that is strong enough to take double the pressure of the loads you intend to use, which most Mauser actions are capable of withstanding 100,000 PSI before they let go.

[mikeym1a]

After seeing pics of short barreled bolt actions on ar15.com, I'm kind of tempted to scope this rifle. I bought iron sights for it (and lost a screw already ), but now I'm tempted to buy a bolt from brownells and weaver scope bases, if I can figure out which ones fit this small ring mauser.

I also don't want to pay $25 for brownells 4 oz of 3.5% nickel welding rod. Anyone have any good alternatives?

My machinist friend used bronze/phosphate, instead of Silver Solder. it's cheaper than the Silver, but still a long way from cheap. He said it was nearly as strong.

[rbertalotto]

[QUOTE]I also don't want to pay $25 for brownells 4 oz of 3.5% nickel welding rod. Anyone have any good alternatives?/QUOTE]

Have it TIG welded. If done correctly and blended after, it looks [perfect and will NEVER break off.

[UBER7MM]

RCAV8R.

DavidHeart had the same question last week, Bolt Forging vs. TIG welding on a new handle.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...r-Bolt-Bending

I hope this helps.

[35 Whelen]

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but I gotta tell you that I wont build on Spanish mausers either SR or LR.
I just dont trust them, and many share my same view. Thats why they can be had so cheap.
Seems like every month there is somebody who asks me to do a build on a Spanish. Aint gonna happen.

Now, since you already have the rifle, and you have yout hat set to do this, at least take some good advice and dont run loads anywhere close to full pressure.

At this point, most people I tell this to start to, get defensive and start telling me that they have fired full pressure loads in their rifle, so it can obviously take it!
I just pick up a paper clip, straighten it, and then bend it.
I say "So like this paper clip could be bent without breaking? I bent it once and it took it no problem, so if it does it once, it must be good forever right?"
I straighten it, then bend it about ten more times and eventually it breaks in half.
"huh. Look at that. I guess if that was a rifle, you just blew your face off eh?"
A picture is worth 1000 words.

That's why I don't build on substandard actions. I don't want an action that's strong enough to take the pressure. I want an action that is strong enough to take double the pressure of the loads you intend to use, which most Mauser actions are capable of withstanding 100,000 PSI before they let go.

Well, the first thing to understand is this rifle is not a "build", it's a conversion. If I used the term "build" in my post, I was in error. Original stock, original , barrel, etc. I've built and watched my Dad build a few rifles in my 50 years and they've always been on actions such as a VZ24, 1910 Mexican, Peruvian, etc., in other words, '98 Mausers or variations thereof. Second, you're not raining on my parade because every internet nanny who's seen this rifle over the last 2 1/2 has told me I was going to die, I was irresponsible, I was going to hurt someone and one even said I didn't really love my wife because I allowed her to shoot this rifle, so I'm used to it. Yet not a single person has ever produced one shred of evidence of one of these rifles blowing up or hurting someone. Not to mention, if this had happened, I'm sure Samco Global, the importer/seller/distributor, would immediately cease to make them available.
Also, I contacted Samco Global and inquired to the strength of the actions. I received a prompt response with an article attached in which was detailed the fact that a sample of these rifles had been sent to H.P. White Laboratories for testing. Long story short, they finally destroyed one of the rifles at 98,000 psi. I've attached the article:

SPANISHMAUSERARTICLE.pdf

That said, I do understand and appreciate the concern. This rifle is, just like mine, a utility rifle. As such, it will never be loaded with anything but relatively mild 150 gr. loads. It isn't a deer rifle, a prairie dog rifle, an elk rifle, nor a brown bear rifle. It's just a handy utility rifle. Fact is, mine has killed a half-dozen deer with cast bullet loads as I'm sure this one will.

35W

[enfield]

Why do people insist on chopping up original full length stocks to "sporterize" a military rifle, theres plenty of them out there all hacked up, why not use one of them.

[MBTcustom]

Well, the first thing to understand is this rifle is not a "build", it's a conversion. If I used the term "build" in my post, I was in error. Original stock, original , barrel, etc. I've built and watched my Dad build a few rifles in my 50 years and they've always been on actions such as a VZ24, 1910 Mexican, Peruvian, etc., in other words, '98 Mausers or variations thereof. Second, you're not raining on my parade because every internet nanny who's seen this rifle over the last 2 1/2 has told me I was going to die, I was irresponsible, I was going to hurt someone and one even said I didn't really love my wife because I allowed her to shoot this rifle, so I'm used to it. Yet not a single person has ever produced one shred of evidence of one of these rifles blowing up or hurting someone. Not to mention, if this had happened, I'm sure Samco Global, the importer/seller/distributor, would immediately cease to make them available.
Also, I contacted Samco Global and inquired to the strength of the actions. I received a prompt response with an article attached in which was detailed the fact that a sample of these rifles had been sent to H.P. White Laboratories for testing. Long story short, they finally destroyed one of the rifles at 98,000 psi. I've attached the article:

SPANISHMAUSERARTICLE.pdf

That said, I do understand and appreciate the concern. This rifle is, just like mine, a utility rifle. As such, it will never be loaded with anything but relatively mild 150 gr. loads. It isn't a deer rifle, a prairie dog rifle, an elk rifle, nor a brown bear rifle. It's just a handy utility rifle. Fact is, mine has killed a half-dozen deer with cast bullet loads as I'm sure this one will.

35W

I really feel that I should apologize. I wasn't trying to be nearly as condescending or arrogant as I may have come across. I was only concerned for peoples safety, and there have been so many times that I would have gotten in serious trouble had I turned a single screw on the rifle a prospective client handed me.
It get's you worried, and it's easy to come across as being over the top on safety. It just get's drilled into your head after a while.

Also, I was addressing the OP as he has a rifle that was chambered in 308, which gives me the heeby jeebies.

The truth is, it's your rifle, it's a free country, and if they were really all that bad, nobody would own them.

[35 Whelen]

No apology needed! I knew what you were getting at.

35W

[KJC402]

Ran across this thread looking for something else.

I used the original military stock, an M-1 carbine front sight, a Williams receiver sight, an XS Systems Scout scope mount and finished off with a good ol' home Parkerizing. I won't go into great detail with pics but here's a few shots of before, during and after.



May be this will give other some ideas.

35W

I know I am a little late to this post, but I was wondering how you did the M1 Carbine front sight on the Spanish 1916? My oldest boy is turning one into a scout rifle and thought the M1 Carbine sight idea was great.

[35 Whelen]

I split the bottom of the sight band and spread it out so it slip over the muzzle, then soldered it into place.

35W

[KJC402]

Thanks for the info

[Texas by God]

I like my 1916 that I rebarreled to 30-30 because I had a good barrel lying around. No pressure worries here at all. Your 1916 scouts are cool and that's great accuracy from that old barrel.
Best, Thomas.

[KCSO]

I hate to admit it but Goodsteel is right OVIDO means soft in Spanish. These rifles were made for 45000 psi loads and no way should be fed a diet of 55000 308's. If I have to rebarrel one I go for the older lower pressure rounds like 6.5 or 7mm and issue a useless warning with each gun.

[Larry Gibson]

From the horses mouth.....the Spanish manual for the rifle and the ammunition to be used in it by them.

Attachment 200874Attachment 200875Attachment 200876Attachment 200877

I've also done considerable pressure testing (Oehler M43 PBL) of 7.62 NATO and non NATO spec ammunition along with quite a bit of .308W commercial ammunition. The pressures of the 7.62 NATO spec and commercial .308W ammunitions overlap. It would be difficult to say with any certainty which is "hotter". They both run from the low 50K psi up to 60K psi. Most of the older foreign non NATO spec ammunition is of lower psi for use in G3s and FALs. The exception is the newer US made M118SB and M118LR which is non NATO spec because they exceed the NATO specified bullet weight, bullet type and MAP.

Additionally I have tested numerous milsurp lots of foreign 7x57 including Spanish 7x57 made as far back as 1918. The psi generated by the milsurp 7x57 as tested in a Chilean M95 rifle fall with in the same psi range as the 7.62 NATO spec and .308W commercial ammunition.

[Larry Gibson]

Now before someone comes back with the "well they made a low powered CETME cartridge for use in these rifles" understand that myth has also been busted. Truth is the Spanish did not develop that ammunition for use in the FR7 and FR8s. The "CETME" ammunition was developed as a stop gap to function reliably in the unfluted CETME rifles. The "CETME" ammunition did not generate lower psi, it simply had a different time/pressure curve. Actually the psi MAP of the "CETME" ammunition os higher than most all the 7.62 NATP spec, .308W commercial ammunition and 7x57 milsurp ammunition tested. Note the actual tested psi MAP of the CETME ammunition is 60,000. I have posted all the test results before so a search of various related threads should provide more detailed test information.

Attachment 200878Attachment 200879

Basically the concept that the "rifle was designed only for 45,000 psi"......is incorrect. Comparing CUP psi measurement of "45,000" to Transducer/strain gauge is also incorrect because it is an apples to oranges comparison and is misleading.

The OP has a fine "sporter" scout rifle. I suggest he use his own loads that do not exceed 50,000 CUP or 60,000 psi that are listed in loading manuals. The Lyman #49 reloading manual would be a good reference. The OPs load with 748 is a good one for his FR7. However the 47 gr H4895 load is probably too much as it will be 62K psi +. Dropping back to 44.5 gr H4895 under a 150 gr jacketed bullet brings it back down to just under 50K psi.

Note the SAAMI MAP for the .308W is 62,000 psi (transducer/strain gauge). Most .308W commercial ammunition does not generate that psi but some does. Thus I suggest the OP avoid commercial .308W because he won't know which does. All the milsurp 7.62 NATO spec and non spec ammunition I have tested generates less than 60K psi. I would suggest the OP avoid any 7.62 NATO newer than 1990.

[RoyEllis]

I hate to admit it but Goodsteel is right OVIDO means soft in Spanish. These rifles were made for 45000 psi loads and no way should be fed a diet of 55000 308's. If I have to rebarrel one I go for the older lower pressure rounds like 6.5 or 7mm and issue a useless warning with each gun.

Sorry, Ovido is a Spanish name meaning "one who is even tempered and jovial".....Oviedo (as related to the rifles in question) refers to Oviedo Arsenal in the city of Oviedo, Spain. Soft in spanish is, depending on usage, suave, tenue, blando or dulce.
I haven't any firm empirical data to fully prove it but my hypothesis behind the "it's weak and will blow up" rep these rifles have gotten is that it's not a matter of weak material but more a matter of poor workmanship @ arsenal refurb, ie excessive headspace, uneven lug bearing surfaces and other assorted gunsmithing atrocities due to mix & match of parts or using defective parts. As long as it would feed and fire once.....crate it up & ship it out was probably the motto used.
Considering the Spaniards view of "those peasant Mexicans" in that time period, as well as the financial status of Mexico, quality was not ordered nor paid for. Case in point....recent imported Moisin Nagants, you would sort through 5 crates just to find 2 or 3 rifles in fairly decent shape, worthy of actually paying for, the rest were pretty sadly abused.

[Red Elk]

I firmly agree with the others who have stated that this rifle should not be used with .308 chambering.
I think the SR mausers are fine for lower pressure cartridges, but .308 based cartridges are not lower pressure. It is just not worth the risk, to you or someone down the line who may inadvertently shove a full pressure round in the rifle.
They just were never designed for such use.
Even shooting high pressure 7x57 or 6.5 x55 rounds could result in a tragedy you do now desire.
While you can shoot low pressure loads for these cartridges without damage, loading them up will result in problems.
Rebarreling to .250 Savage, 7.62x39, .300 Savage or .35 Remington is a better idea. Keep the pressure within specs, and you are in much safer territory.
There are loads for 7x57 or 6.5x55 which can be used, if you keep them within the proper pressure limits, but the chances that someone down the road will install a high pressure round in the rifle are not worth the risk.
Any of the lower pressure rounds I have mentioned will take game up to and including elk, with proper shot placement. The need to increase power does not outweigh the need to be safe in what you are doing.
Current theory would tell you that you need the maximum amount of power to do what is to be done. This is simply not true, and many years of experience has shown that accuracy beats power in normal hunting situations.
Keep it within reason, and it will do all you need.
re

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've owned two of these Spanish 1916 mausers that were arsenal reworked to 7.62nato.

I believed the Myth that these were made for the lower pressure 7.62 CETME...Thank You Larry for explaining in great detail how that was incorrect in more than one angle.

The one annual gunshow I have a table at, my table neighbor is seemingly quite the Mauser expert. He told me many times not to worry too much about the strength of a 1916, but he said don't push it either...Now he never went into detail, like Larry does above, so I never really knew if I should load over 45Kpsi, so I never did.

BUT, the reason I am taking the time to post, If you have a 1916 with Original Bolt, have the bolt checked out...
Both of my 1916's, with different markings, one with matching Bolt(a civil guard example) and the other non-matching...BUT both Bolts had an eroded (enlarged) firing pin hole in the bolt face...To me, the bolt face near the primer hole had pock marks, like someone had peened that area with a center punch, my Mauser expert friend told me that's how they erode. He also told me to NOT trust those bolts, and he said the 1916 bolts were notoriously soft and subject to eroding. He swapped out the bolt body's for me, with some German made equivalent ones.