How I turned a perfectly good revolver into a giant paper weight

[Animal]

Hey guys,

I'm writing this with the intention of getting some info out to the public that might help avoid the destruction of a beloved gun and injury or death of the shooter.
I cancelled a Winchester 296/cast RNFP load at the last minute when I realized that I didn't have published data specific to the boolit that I had. I decided to try the following instead. All my brass was primed by the time I switched loads, that is why I have magnum primers in the following.

My firearm: Taurus M66 .357 magnum 4in barrel 7 round

My load data: 3.7gr IMR PB, Hornaday 158gr XTP, Virgin Starline brass trimmed to 1.278, C.O.L. 1.583, CCI 550 and heavy roll crimp (3/4 turn on Lee 3rd die).

My load data came from Hodgdons most recent magazine. It stated that 3.7 to 4.9 grains was and acceptable range.

I meticulously trimmed brass, scrutinized my charges, measured every COL and inspected each crimp. I've only been reloading for almost a year and I feel that I've gotten pretty anal about load development.

I worked up seven rounds for each two tenths of a grain that I increased the load. I took my 49 rounds to my range, put up my target and commenced to testing out my new loads. I knew these loads would be extremely light compared to what I normally shoot, but I wanted to see if this would be a good target load, or SD load for my wife at some point.

I cocked the hammer and took the first shot. The round hit just southeast of the bull. I could barely hear the gun fire and I definitely didn't feel the round go off. This load felt lighter than some light .38spl that I've loaded in the past. In fact, I'm pretty sure I had a Red Rider BB gun that had a kick more stout than that round.

I didn't think too much of it and I continued to take the next shot. Same feel, same quiet "tap", only I didn't see where I even hit the paper. I continued on with the last 5 rounds... I didn't see anymore holes in the target. I thought maybe all my shots grouped tightly in the bullseye and that is why my weak eyes couldn't see them.

I ejected my spent brass, inspected the primers and cases, set the gun down and proceeded to inspect my shots and put up the next target for the next rounds. I couldn't believe what I saw, only one round hit paper. I was shooting from 15 yards, so this was perplexing to me. I set up the next target and decided that these rounds just aren't accurate. I figured I'd have to get to the higher end of the charge before they would group. I've noticed this as a characteristic of some of my loads.

Once again I pulled back the hammer, pulled the trigger and failed to see a hole on paper. The shot was slightly more audible, but not by much. Just like the first load, this load had zero felt recoil. Pulling the trigger had about the same recoil as hitting the volume button my TV remote! I was getting a little discouraged and I haven't even gotten to my 4.1 grain loads yet. I wasn't too optimistic about any part of this load.

I raised up for a second shot, pulled the hammer and... the hammer was stuck. I couldn't chamber the second round. I didn't think it was possible that these bullets could have jumped crimp. I had a heavy crimp and no felt recoil. I attempted to eject the cylinder to see what had happened but the cylinder was stuck. I thought to myself that that round must have somehow gotten stuck between the throat and the forcing cone. I did the unthinkable and looked down the barrel of my loaded .357. There was a bullet in the bore. It seated itself approximately 3/4 of an inch from the very end of the bore. I've heard about this happening but it hasn't happened to me yet. I ended my shooting session and called a buddy of mine that has a little experience with this sort of thing. He advised me to try to gently tap the bullet back down the barrel and into the case.

I removed the hammer and trigger mechanism to prevent any possibility of an accidental fire. I was unsuccessful in tapping the bullet down the bore. Each tap just caused the hollow-point to expand and tighten itself in the bore. I sat down and thought about what happened. My shots weren't just lousy aimed shots, those bullets never left the barrel! My gun had 7 Hornaday 158 grain XTP hollow-points lined up in the barrel and packed tighter than sardines in a can! To confirm that this was the case, I went back to the range and crawled on my hands and knees in the grass searching for bullets that may have just dropped out of the barrel. Not a single bullet was found.

Now I'm perplexed. How does one manage to jam bullets/boolits in a barrel and not experience any recoil, excessive sound or any other warning signs? I always thought that firing a round into another stuck round would produce catastrophic results, how is it that my gun appears to be unscathed? Where did the pressure from the powder ignition go? Not a single round fired felt ANY different than the first round that functioned properly.

I slugged the bore and throats earlier this year and found that my bore measured a .354. I was told that it is a bit undersized but shouldn't be a problem. I've mostly used cast boolits and haven't had any problem. I've used these XTP bullets with HP38 and H110 with great results. I've been racking my brain trying think of something I failed to do properly, but I can't come up with anything except my barrel may have been too tight for the low velocity jacketed bullet. Or, somehow my primers were too hot for the load. I really can't come up with anything that I can condemn as the cause of failure, only possibilities.

If my bore dimensions were too small for the round I loaded, then I hope that this post will help others to avoid a very dangerous situation. I am pretty embarrassed about this load because I know that somehow, some way, whatever went wrong has to do with a choice that I made somewhere along the line. Perhaps I didn't take my bore size serious enough. Or perhaps I should have sucked up the extra work and prepared unprimed brass with non magnum primers. I really wouldn't have thought that that would make this huge of a difference, but perhaps I didn't take that as serious as I should have.

Maybe some of you have had an experience like this and can share some insight of what may have went wrong. Whether the bore size was at fault or the primer was at fault, at the end of the day it was still my load in my gun and I have to take responsibility for that and appreciate that I still have all my fingers.

The irony in this experience is that I cancelled a load just as I was ready to start charging the shells because I feared a dangerous situation would come about due to the fact that I didn't feel the data I had was suitable for the boolit I chose. I found different data that I had the powder and bullets for and approached it with comfort in knowing I had solid data. I would never have expected this to happen.

As of now the XTP bullets are still lodged in the barrel and there are six live rounds in the cylinder. I can't get the cylinder open. I've thought about giving it to a gunsmith to fix, but I think I have just lost confidence in that firearm ever being a 'good gun' again. I had sent it off to Taurus earlier this year because it kept shaving jackets off bullets on the left side of the forcing cone. They fixed that problem but I don't feel comfortable with putting my safety in that firearm any more. Taurus makes fine revolvers and has a good warranty, but once you have a bad experience with a firearm... well, it might not be trustworthy. It is a hard pill to swallow.

I hope this information will help someone. Thanks

[mikeym1a]

I read a post here recently about customer service regarding Taurus. They used to have a good name, but from what I've read, not so anymore. I presume this is a revolter. In that case, take it to a trusted gunsmith, and have him remove the barrel. Perhaps he could put it in a lathe, and carefully bore through the stuck projectiles, and then try and get the rest out. OR, it might be more cost effective to get another barrel and have it installed. If this is a new gun, I don't think Taurus will warranty this. Sorry.

[Spawn-Inc]

that really sucks, and i've had 10 rounds or more that were under powered and ended up with a bullet stuck in the barrel. i was able to hammer them out every time. i have a smith 586 that has seen 4 stuck bullets, and it wasn't fun removing the bullets let me tell you!

i've also had a barrel bulged due to a stuck bullet in my 1911 in 45acp. i got a huge lot of various bullets so i loaded up 100 rounds to test out. i fired my 98th round and the brass ejected, so i fired the next round and the slide locked back. i went to load another mag and let the slide go, but it wouldn't move. $100 later, lesson learned.

because of that, if i don't see a bullet hit the target and there was very little recoil or i'm testing new loads i always check the barrel.


i'm not exactly sure how i would solve the problem you have, i think it would involve carefully drilling the bullets out, but i suspect that would wreck the bore.

[Animal]

Mikey, Taurus only likes factory ammo. They would know I put handloads in it because of the headstamp on the brass. It sucks, but thats what they do.

[nagantguy]

Very detailed post, thanks for sharing. Count your self one Lucky fellow, I assumed a gun would come apart when something like this happened. I've only ever dealt with three stuck bullets, only once was there a live round in chamber and I was unable to unload and clear the fire arm. I took the stock and scope off and gave the whole thing a dunk in the acid bath. Had to re blue but other wise it was fine, still my truck gun. However in none of those cases was another bullet fired behind the stuck one.

[Tim357]

My guess is, between the smallish barrel dimensions, the light powder charge, and the jacketed bullet, there was not enough pressure to launch the second bullet from the bore. Using lead boolits there would be less bore friction, so the same load would probably have been suitable, and they probably would have hit the paper.

[joesig]

Things happen sometimes. If you didn't bulge the barrel, it will be just fine.

I would suggest you use a deck screw or better, a pilot hole and small lag bolt (1/4") with a stack of washers and extract one bullet at a time until it the barrel is clear. Lead is very "gummy" and grabby so a dull bit would be better. A drill bit the size of the screw shank should allow the threads to bite but not expand the bullet in the bore. Lube the screw with a good case lube and screw it in and pop the bullets out like a cork screw.

P.S. you can go up to 5/16 if you strip the 1/4 lag. if you break the deck screw (tough but not impossible) you can use some brake tubing sharpened like a small hole saw to drill around the screw.

While i would NOT suggest drilling the slugs out, wrapping some tape around the drill to act as a buffer/guide.

The EPA frowned upon way would be to use mercury to dissolve the lead.

[country gent]

A gunsmith will be able to do something for you, with a light load there amy be no real damage to the barrel at this point. If th cylinder opend to load then froze did you fire one round from the cylinder? I would stand muzze up and soak a little kroil down the barrel thenTake to a good gunsmith and be honest telling him what you have and let him decide the best route to go. Hes the professional. Im betting at this point it can be saved. He may ave to pull the barrel and use an arbor press or possibly drill a hole to relive pressure. The kroil will lubricate and help to allow the bullets to slide.

[454PB]

I was only about 1/3 of the way through the post and already knew what was coming. I had a similar experience firing somebody else's .38 Special handloads a while back. Luckily, I stopped at the first squib, because I've had others. I was able to drive the stuck bullet from the barrel and no damage was done. I disassembled the rest of the loaded rounds and found that the guy had used a very light load of unique behind some 110 grain JHPs.....light enough that there wasn't enough pressure to push them through the barrel.

Never, ever fire a subsequent round if you don't see evidence that the bullet (or boolit) exited the barrel!

This has nothing to do with Taurus quality, it could have happened with any gun.

I'm sure a gunsmith can return it to service, but he's not going to like you bringing it in with a loaded cylinder. Any chance you can removed the screw on the right side of the frame and remove the entire cylinder?

[mikeym1a]

Mikey, Taurus only likes factory ammo. They would know I put handloads in it because of the headstamp on the brass. It sucks, but thats what they do.

From what I was reading on that other post, they don't even like to fix their own screw-ups. And, yeah, they would be able to tell it was not factory loads. Most of the gun companies seem to prefer that you use only factory ammo. Makes sense from their point of view. We with older guns don't worry about it. We just worry how we are going to pay to get our screw-ups fixed!! I know it will be an added expense, but the smith could probably tune up you Taurus while he/she has it apart. (I presume there are female gunsmiths, although I've never met one.) That's as good an excuse as any to get it detailed.....

[wv109323]

I would say the barrel is toast. A gunsmith may be able to remove the barrel. The barrel is probably swelled and no good. I would look closely at the frame for cracks or warpage.

[Norbrat]

The cylinder likely won't open because there is a bullet jammed aganst the last (first?) bullet in the forcing cone in barrel, straddling the cylinder gap. That would make it REAL difficult or impossible to remove the cylinder.

Sure sounds like the best option is to unscrew the barrel.

Now I'm perplexed. How does one manage to jam bullets/boolits in a barrel and not experience any recoil, excessive sound or any other warning signs? I always thought that firing a round into another stuck round would produce catastrophic results, how is it that my gun appears to be unscathed? Where did the pressure from the powder ignition go? Not a single round fired felt ANY different than the first round that functioned properly.

Most of a gun's felt recoil is when the bullet and gases leave the muzzle.

As a revolver has a cylinder gap, this allowed the pressure to dissipate before it could blow up the barrel. You were lucky you were using a low powered round; a heavier load would have produced much higher pressure much more quickly for cylinder gap "safety valve" to have worked.

Be grateful the Taurus was built strong enough to withstand this. If you can get it repaired, you should have no concerns about the "trustworthiness" of the gun.

[Spawn-Inc]

Things happen sometimes. If you didn't bulge the barrel, it will be just fine.

I would suggest you use a deck screw or better, a pilot hole and small lag bolt (1/4") with a stack of washers and extract one bullet at a time until it the barrel is clear. Lead is very "gummy" and grabby so a dull bit would be better. A drill bit the size of the screw shank should allow the threads to bite but not expand the bullet in the bore. Lube the screw with a good case lube and screw it in and pop the bullets out like a cork screw.

P.S. you can go up to 5/16 if you strip the 1/4 lag. if you break the deck screw (tough but not impossible) you can use some brake tubing sharpened like a small hole saw to drill around the screw.

While i would NOT suggest drilling the slugs out, wrapping some tape around the drill to act as a buffer/guide.

The EPA frowned upon way would be to use mercury to dissolve the lead.

genius! much better then drilling it out.

[Char-Gar]

The firearm or it's maker bear no responsibility or fault in this matter. The fault is 100% on the shooter.

If a round does not sound right or feel right, STOP RIGHT THEN, examine the bore for stuck bullets or other foreign object. If you find something, do not fire another round, but take that lot of ammo home and break it down.!!!!!!!!

This is basic shooting 101, like water runs down hill or the sun rises in the east! I have been handloading since 1958 and this is still my rule. You never get so much experience that it exempt you from common sense and basic safety.

If I had my way, I would take his guys guns away, make him run laps, do pushups, write on the blackboard or something until I was certain he had learned his lesson. Then I would give him his guns back. If he pulled another bone headed stunt I would take them away for good.

Does this sound harsh and judgmental? Good, I intended it to be! I can live with it, if folks think I am mean and don't invite me to their next birthday party. Not only can guns be trashed, but people hurt when we stop thinking when we shoot.

[MattOrgan]

This is a good warning about reloading and paying attention when you fire reloads. Guns, components, and conditions all vary from published data. The revolver gave plenty of warnings that something was amiss; but did not come apart even when firing 6 additional rounds into a total bore obstruction. Pretty amazing that the gun held it, a testament to Taurus. The problem now is removing all the bullets from a loaded revolver. Can't be mailed, hopefully there is a good gunsmith close by who can deal with this properly and inspect the revolver for any damage. Please keep us updated.

[RickinTN]

As a revolver has a cylinder gap, this allowed the pressure to dissipate before it could blow up the barrel. You were lucky you were using a low powered round; a heavier load would have produced much higher pressure much more quickly for cylinder gap "safety valve" to have worked.

If his load had enough pressure he wouldn't have his current problem. The bullets would have exited the barrel!

[Lead Fred]

Friends dont let friends buy Tor-asses.

Have not found one yet that held together.

We put a 44 mag out of battery with mild rounds

[zxcvbob]

Don't send it to Taurus, it's not worth the headaches, and you don't want them working on it anyway. A gunsmith should be able to get them out, and check to make sure the gun is still safe. It *might* have a bulged barrel but probably not; even if it does it might still shoot OK.

Here's a .357 Magnum load for you: 8.0 grains of Herco, any small primer (small pistol works best), and a 158 grain SWC or RNFP boolit cast from hard lead. Since your gun has an extra tight bore, back off to about 7 or 7.5 grains.

[Norbrat]

As a revolver has a cylinder gap, this allowed the pressure to dissipate before it could blow up the barrel. You were lucky you were using a low powered round; a heavier load would have produced much higher pressure much more quickly for cylinder gap "safety valve" to have worked.

If his load had enough pressure he wouldn't have his current problem. The bullets would have exited the barrel!

True, assuming the previous round had (enough) powder in it.

Been there, done that! Had a bunch of squibs due to powder thrower not working as expected, but realised as soon as it happened that I had one stuck in the barrel , so I stopped shooting.

[Animal]

The firearm or it's maker bear no responsibility or fault in this matter. The fault is 100% on the shooter.

If a round does not sound right or feel right, STOP RIGHT THEN, examine the bore for stuck bullets or other foreign object. If you find something, do not fire another round, but take that lot of ammo home and break it down.!!!!!!!!

This is basic shooting 101, like water runs down hill or the sun rises in the east! I have been handloading since 1958 and this is still my rule. You never get so much experience that it exempt you from common sense and basic safety.

If I had my way, I would take his guys guns away, make him run laps, do pushups, write on the blackboard or something until I was certain he had learned his lesson. Then I would give him his guns back. If he pulled another bone headed stunt I would take them away for good.

Does this sound harsh and judgmental? Good, I intended it to be! I can live with it, if folks think I am mean and don't invite me to their next birthday party. Not only can guns be trashed, but people hurt when we stop thinking when we shoot.

Char-gar, if you would have read the whole thread you would have seen that you sound like a complete idiot. I concluded that the responsibility of this issue was 100% my fault. "my load, my gun, my responsibility." If you aren't ashamed of yourself, you should be.

I assume you didn't bother to read this part either " I am pretty embarrassed about this load because I know that somehow, some way, whatever went wrong has to do with a choice that I made somewhere along the line. Perhaps I didn't take my bore size serious enough."

Feel free to run laps