35 Cal Rifle Build Guidance

[warf73]

I want to build a 35cal rifle sometime next year. I’ve started looking at the different 35’s out there with available brass.
As of right now my pick is the .35 Wheelen. The intent of this rifle is to have something lighter to carry around the woods over the 460wby Mark V. I’m looking at boolits in the 250gr. (bottom end) to 280gr (very top end). Barrel will be 18~22” with a 2 or 4x fixed power glass. Intended range will be from point blank to max of 250 yards at game and 300 yards at paper. Arkansas black bear will be the largest quarry for this rig with some Texas hogs mixed in.
I want to launch a 275gr boolit at 2k fps(more or less depends were accuracy comes in) which might be a tall order for such a short barrel.
The donor rifle will be a savage 30-06, and the barrel will be made by Shilen in the Chrome Moly Match Grade S7 with Recess Target Crown (length will be determined from discussion here) with either 1-12” or 1-14” I think the 14” will be the way to go with the heaver boolits I’m wanting to shoot.
I’ve picked out 2 molds from Accurate molds that really blow up my skirt, 250gr and a 275gr both in gas check.
Here is what I’ve found on the net so far and this is where the guidance of the forum comes in.

358 Winchester
The 358 Winchester isn’t a top choice because brass is limited run in the few places I checked. My question about this cartridge is will it launch a 250gr. boolit at 2k fps accurately, let alone a 275gr boolit?

350 Rem Mag
350 Rem Mag is dropped as I don’t want a belted mag for this project, I’ve got plenty of other belted mag guns no need for another.

35 Rem
35 Remmington looks like it will be lacking in being able to launch a 250gr boolit let alone a 275gr boolit at 2k fps. Also brass is limited run in the few places I checked. Is this cartridge based on a blown out .308?

35 Wheelen
35 Wheelen looks great for what I want to do and can’t see any down fall to it. I might be too close to the forest to see the trees.

What do you all think am I overlooking something?

Thanks Warf

[warf73]

I like the 36-250C

but want the contour of the nose from the 36-235L

Also like the 36-275Q nose shape contour and would like to have the shank of the 36-250C put on it.


Those would be the 2 molds built for the project unless Tom has a better idea or anyone else for that matter but those really blew up skirt

Warf

[flounderman]

you can make .358 brass from .308

[Lefty SRH]

The 35 Remmy is not based off of the .308 case. The 35 Remmy is a much older cartridge, right around 1910 IIRC. I have one in a Marlin 336 lever and I'm shooting a 237gr boolit at 2025 and accuracy is as good as I can ask for.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=36-230F-D.png

[Nobade]

I think it depends more on if you are using a short or long action receiver to build your rifle. Either 358 or 35 Whelen can easily do what you want, the 358 will do it at somewhat higher pressure. Both are easy to make cases for - my 358 dies have a tapered expander so one pass with military 308 cases and I have 358 so no worries there. 35 Whelen is the same way with 30-06 cases.

-Nobade

[Alan in GA]

There is already a post on what I wanted to add in favor of the .358 Win....one of if not THE favorite cartridge of mine. That to add: 308 cases are about as common as common can be, and make EXCELLENT .358 Win cases with only a tapered expander rod in the FL die. I tapered the expander rod my old set of Lee .358 Win dies and learned later that LEE started putting a tapered expander in the factory die sets since it works great with .358 or .308 cases. One easy pass and .308 cases come out as .358 cases!

I sold my old Ruger 77R in .358 Win after using it for deer hunting for 12 years. I sold it only telling myself I would build another with a custom barrel to see just HOW accurate a .358 Win could be.
Another, what I call a 'plus', with the .358 Win: I've used dozens of different cartridges to deer hunt. The .358 Win has one of the most 'non-CRACK' muzzle blasts and I can only assume it's the large bore combined with an efficient powder charge in the 308/358 case under that large caliber bullet. I don't care to use hearing protection in the deer woods with a rifle, [an absolute must with a pistol] and the .358 Win is THE WINNER in the most 'boom instead of CRACK' muzzle report in the woods.

Yes, I really really like the .358 Win, and by the way, it is NOT just a 'short to mid range' round as some typewriter hunters say! It's my opinion that many excellent cartridges have been 'killed' by.....typewriters!

[waksupi]

.358 Win. 200+yard point blank range.

[williamwaco]

I would prefer the .358 Winchester.

BUT:

I don't think it will feed reliably through that 30-06 action.

In your case, with your "donor", I would go .35 Whelen.

That said, Mr Whelen would tell you to leave it alone.

"The .30-06 is never a mistake". - Colonel Townsend Whelen.


..

[Whiterabbit]

I like the 275Q mold as is. Plain base and tumble lube. If you go for 358 Win, I think that bullet should be used as is. Even with 35 whelen, consider using as is. Fat and slow is often the way to go, and a PB bullet forces the hand there. I'll bet you can still drive it well over 1500 fps easily, and with PB and TL you'll be CRANKING out he bullets. And since you said 2 molds you'll still have a lighter GC mold if you want to try to make a whizzbang load.

[Larry Gibson]

With your Savage action go with the 35 Whelen. It will fit and function without problems. Get the 14" twist as the fastest. I would get a 16" twist myself.

Larry Gibson

[JesterGrin_1]

Having both the .358 Winchester and a .35 Whelen turning into a .35 Whelen Ackley Improved I would have to say the .358 Winchester would be the way to go.

Since you were talking about a shorter barrel as the .35 Whelen really needs a 24" tube. Will a shorter one work. I am sure it would but to take advantage of the cartridge the 24" is the way to go.

The .358 Winchester can get everything done that needs to be done with a 20" barrel.

As for twist I would pick either a 1-12 or 1-14 twist. Both of mine are the 1-14 twist as that is what they had at the time from Shaw.

The main thing I would change if I was going to build another is find a barrel company that would make a lighter barrel than my Shaw. As they are a Heavy Mag contour of which makes them Heavy lol. I hunt mostly so long strings of shots are not my main concern. It is accuracy and being able to carry them. But I am a bit late on the lite part lol.

And as mentioned you can use .308 Winchester Brass to convert to .358 Winchester. Unless you must have cases that are marked .358 Win. I am sure you will find some from individuals or a few retailers.

If you choose the .35 Whelen I would go straight to the .35 Whelen Ackley Improved.

But again with the speed range that you will be pushing these BOOLITS the .358 Winchester is a wonderful cartridge to get it done.

I wish I could tell you that I have taken game with my .358 Winchester but it is a pretty New Build and thus have only taken it out a few times without any luck.

I have used my .35 Whelen on 1 200 Plus lb Hog at about 130 yards but with a Speer 250Gr Hot-Core and if there is such a thing as way overkill that was it lol. Went through both shoulders and the hog just flipped over and blood went about 8 to 10 feet out and 4 feet or so wide lol.

Just thought I would add one even though I do not have one lol. But the 9.3 X 62 might be worth a gander at. Also instead of a new barrel you might contact Jess Re-boring as he can do that for you with a fast turn around and about $225.00. Also if you look up his work he is highly praised. Just thought would throw that out there.

[warf73]

Thanks everyone for the replies.
The 358 Winchester brass would be easy to make it sounds like, and I have around 1k once fired 308 Federal brass under the bench. My main question as I look through all the posts will the 358 Winchester shoot the 250~275gr boolits in the lower 2,000fps range with a 14" twist barrel?

Larry I would go with a 16" twist if it was offered by Shilen but 12" or 14" is the only offerings in the 35 cal. unless I missed something.

Jester I've read great reviews about Jesses work and that would give me a chance to keep the barrel lighter. I'll do some digging and see if he offers the 16" twist in the 35 cal. I've not done any research on the 9.3X62 so I'm at a loss for words on this cartridge, but I'll look around and see what I can found about it.

Another member sent me a PM about maybe doing a 35/284 and that has my interest also. I've not done a wildcat in over 10 years and maybe it’s time again

Thanks everyone for your replies and please keep them coming. I love learning about older cartridges as old ones aren’t really that old and new ones sometimes aren’t really NEW just rehashed old ones with new bells and whistles.

Warf

[Nobade]

I wouldn't make a 35/284 if you have a long action. It does the same thing as a 35 Whelen but won't feed right and brass is expensive and hard to get.

9.3X62 is also almost ballistically identical. Lapua brass is very good and pricy, Privi brass is decent and not too expensive. But then you need to get another mould unless you paper patch your 35 cal. ones.

I turned my own 358 barrel (Adams & Bennett from Midway) to a Kreiger #2 taper and it works fine and is very light. It is a 1-16 twist and stabilizes 300gr. #358009 boolits just fine with very good accuracy. It will easily fire those at 2100 fps, so no worries about the ballistics you want to achieve. I normally run it with 215gr. at 2400 fps, using a BRP paper patched boolit.

If you do a 358 on a long action you will need to block the rear of the magazine box to get it to feed properly. If you go with 35 Whelen it will work right with no modifications (assuming you have a long action)

-Nobade

[waksupi]

Thanks everyone for the replies.
The 358 Winchester brass would be easy to make it sounds like, and I have around 1k once fired 308 Federal brass under the bench. My main question as I look through all the posts will the 358 Winchester shoot the 250~275gr boolits in the lower 2,000fps range with a 14" twist barrel?


Warf

Yes. That is what the target I posted was shot with.

[warf73]

Nobade,
I've not bought the rifle yet but have been looking at the 30 06 savages as there faily cheap under $300 with glass. I can look for a 308 if need be but was looking at the 06 since my first choices would take a long action.

waksupi,
Would you send me details of your rifle either here on this thread or via PM.

Thanks Warf

[JesterGrin_1]

Jester I've read great reviews about Jesses work and that would give me a chance to keep the barrel lighter. I'll do some digging and see if he offers the 16" twist in the 35 cal. I've not done any research on the 9.3X62 so I'm at a loss for words on this cartridge, but I'll look around and see what I can found about it.

Well then I would look around for a savage in say .243 or .308 Win and have Jess Re-bore the barrel for what you wish to have. He can also cut the barrel to the length desired and crown it for a nominal fee.

But you will have to weight out the cost between a Jess Re-Bore or a new barrel.

I know myself and others have said this a few times. But the .358 Winchester is a Wonderful Cartridge.

I will even be allot more honest lol. If I would have had the .358 Winchester built before the .35 Whelen I probably would not have had the .35 Whelen built. The .358 Winchester is that good.

My .358 Winchester is built on a Stevens (Savage) Short Action originally chambered in 7MM-08. And replaced the barrel with a Shaw .358 Winchester in Heavy Mag Contour and cut to 20". The action was squared and trued along with the lugs lapped in and set into a Boyd's Thumb Hole stock with pillars added and bedded with Bed Rock. And it was coated with Dura-Coat.

I was lucky as at the time I was going to do this Academy had the Stevens Rifles on sale for $179.95 of which made a great foundation for the .358 Winchester. Too bad for me they only had the 1 rifle left that I was able to obtain at that price.

I have the build here http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...hlight=Stevens

[Alan in GA]

ON .358s by Ruger,...I always thought Ruger could have made a 'better' .358 Win by using the slightly heavier sporter barrel contour they use on their .338 Win Mag sporter 77s. The 'little' .358 Win is quite the shoulder thumper with heavy loads and 250 Speers. The barrel they did use with the 77R rifles [tang safety] was very light and looked like a .410 shotgun at the muzzle - very little steel around that .35 bore! Reading this line of posts has me once again missing a .358 and I'm going to add a .358 barrel to a friend's barrel order - probably Pac Nor. The Rugers came with 16" twist barrels but lately I read that 14" is the commonly available twist. If one poster is getting good accuracy with 16" twist and heavy bullets then maybe 16" will work well, especially since cast will be shot at some time.
What better change to a .308 case than to be easily made into a 35/08....our well liked .358 Win!

[rr2241tx]

I've found this site to be a treasure trove of information on 35 caliber: http://35cal.com/. Mine is a 35 Whelen built on a Springfield 03-A3.

[warf73]

I had a talk with Jesse at http://www.35caliber.com/ last night. The 358 Winchester will be no issue using a donor 243 barrel,and the turn around time is really fast. The only thing I forgot to ask was about twist but once I get closer to sending in a barrel I'll find out if I can get 1-16". The next question would be will 3 groove be OK or should I pick the 4 groove or even the 5?

[JesterGrin_1]

I had a talk with Jesse at http://www.35caliber.com/ last night. The 358 Winchester will be no issue using a donor 243 barrel,and the turn around time is really fast. The only thing I forgot to ask was about twist but once I get closer to sending in a barrel I'll find out if I can get 1-16". The next question would be will 3 groove be OK or should I pick the 4 groove or even the 5?

I would not pick a 1-16 twist but rather go with the 1-14. According to Ben here on the forum and others the 3 Groove is fine. Also just my opinion but the .358 Winchester can do everything it needs to do in a 20" barrel. So if you like you can have Jess cut and re-crown the barrel while he has it.