1903 30-06 1000yds what mold!

[Dedley Accurate]

I am working on fulfilling a dream of hitting a 1000yd target with my 1903 Springfield, with bullets I've cast and loaded.

There is a much bigger story to it but ill not wast time on that right now.

What mold would you recommend for this shot and why. Please no guesses here, I am looking for an experienced, educated answer please. I don't mind discussion, I just don't want to be looking for the wrong mold.

[Wayne S]

I'd look ,1st at the NOE 247 gn. , then the Lee 230 gn. With the proper fit to the throat & bore, proper alloy and lube you should be able to drive either to 2300-2400 fps. With their high for cast bullets BC they should retain enough speed to make it to 1000 yds.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Agreed...

3rd option, 311284

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Agreed...

3rd option, 311284
they were using it a hundred years ago in the old '06.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I use the 311284 for my Garand and it has proven to be a winner at least in this rifle. Loaded down with Varget and a carnuba red lube by Lars (White Label Lubes) it is reliable and consistent out to 400 yds on steel gongs. Nothing better than firing off a clip of 8 and getting loud and clear clangs from the target at 400 yds. I would try at a longer distance but alas my range only goes out to 400 yds.

I confess to a major upgrade to my rifle. On the front I have a globe sight with a nice insert from Lyman and it makes a big difference for me and my 70 years old eyes.

[frnkeore]

What ever acceptable accuracy/speed you shoot the bullet at, it will get there. The thing that you have to consider is having enough verticle adjustment to sight it in.

BPCR matches are shot with high BC bullets in the 12/1300 fps range so, I wouldn't worry about speed, but more about accuracy.

The drop is about double, but the wind drift is 1" less between 1400 and 2400 fps. The wind drift is worst at 1900 fps, but only by 15" max. @ 1000 yards. Below figures are based on a BC of .33

2400fps
yards--terminal----drop----ToF---Wind drift
--------speed----------------------@ 10 mph

1000---917------744.24---2.26---172.06


1400fps
1000---773------1613.06--3.15---171.05

Note the terminal velocity difference between the two. The reason being how much time is spent supersonic. It takes a lot more energy to travel at SS speeds, thus the bullet slows faster.

Check it out:

http://www.handloads.com/calc/

Frank

[Outpost75]

+1 on #311299, quenched wheelweights, Tamarack in grooves, Hornady GC, tumble overcoat all over with Lee Liquid Alox diluted 50-50 with mineral spirit, 56 grs. 4831 with Federal 210M.

I have actually shot this load on the 1000-yard rifle deck at Quantico from an M1903 Springfield with long slide Lyman 48 rear and Lyman 17A front aperture. Granted, this was many years ago before the current decimal target was adopted in the late 1960s. Liquid Alox did not exist then, so we smeared Tamarack on the bullet nose with our fingers! I was able to hold the "5" ring on the old "C" target with enough "V"s to keep it interesting. Never chronographed the load, but from experience with similar charges with the WCC58 white box 200-gr. Super Match FMJ bullets, it was probably approaching 2400 fps.

Accuracy was not up to current match standards, but better than Cal. APM2 available to is at the time and nearly as good as 174-grain Ball M1 made in the 1930s, which was essentially 2 moa ammo out of the Springfield. I expect the cast loads were in the order of 2-1/2 to 3 minutes, which isn't all that bad for old technology.

[Argentino]

I am working on fulfilling a dream of hitting a 1000yd target with my 1903 Springfield, with bullets I've cast and loaded.

There is a much bigger story to it but ill not wast time on that right now.

What mold would you recommend for this shot and why. Please no guesses here, I am looking for an experienced, educated answer please. I don't mind discussion, I just don't want to be looking for the wrong mold.

You may want to take a look at this guy´s video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNHJjqZxpwQ

1000 yards steel plate from a 03-A3 using soft lead-Lyman 311299 paper patched boolits.

Interesting results IMHO.

[Wayne S]

If you will do a search on the NOE 311247, the original start up post is many pages long, somewhere in there are several posts listing stability programs regarding the stability of the 311247. here is one http://http://www.jbmballistics.com/...bmstab-5.1.cgi
Take what they say with a grain of salt. ALL of the bullets listed should do the job, the ones with the slightly more streamlined noses should shoot a little flatter than the RN's. The heavier ones should buck the wind better and don't forget the RCBS 200 Sil..
Go to the "bullet exchange" section of the classifieds and ask to buy 25-50 of the designs you are really interested in. Specify either "as cast" or sized to the Dia. of your throat, based on a slugging or cerosafe casting of your chamber. DO NOT to forget to thank those that send you bullets free in open forum

[madsenshooter]

I'd go with the NOE 311365, it has to have the highest BC of any cast 30cal bullet.

[Win94ae]

I'd go with the NOE 311365, it has to have the highest BC of any cast 30cal bullet.

I've got to get me that mold!
Thanks for bringing it to my/our attention.

[Wayne S]

I've got to get me that mold!
Thanks for bringing it to my/our attention.

You should beg, borrow or what ever to get some of these to try before buying a mold. In my M1A, and a 15" Contender the 311299 shoots at least 50 % smaller groups

[frnkeore]

My recommendation is to first find accuarte load at 200 - 300 yards with the 311299 bullet. The whisper and 311365 bullets can be problematic for accuracy, especially at higher velocitys.

A good 300 yard, '06 load is 19 - 20 gr 4759 with pistol primers and no wads or fillers. It holds the CBA 300 yard record group. I think when you get to 300, you'll be out of or very close to having no elevation adjustment left.

Frank

[Jack Stanley]

I agree with the guys using the 311299 and that would be my choice if my 314299 didn't work better for me . It drops from the mold at .312" and the 311299 drops at .316 .... go figure huh? The nose of my 314 is at .3015" or so and I have clocked it at over twenty-three hundred feet per second from my A3 rifle . Better eyes that mine can put this ammo into groups better than most lots of ball ammo .

I've never paper patched but that idea has some good merit I would think .

Jack

[Wayne S]

You may want to take a look at this guy´s video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNHJjqZxpwQ

1000 yards steel plate from a 03-A3 using soft lead-Lyman 311299 paper patched boolits.

Interesting results IMHO.

Watched this a few times recalling the elevation of the muzzle, then a flash back of a term herd at all FSB's in SE Asia, FIRE FOR EFFECT

[Bob S]

Elevation .... the original 30-03 sight ladder was marked to 2400 yards, so if you can get a 200+ grain bullet to shoot well at 2000 fps or a little higher, you should have plenty of elevation for 1000 yards if you are using the issue rear sight. The most significant problem will be wind. There used to be 2ft-wide "wings" on the 1000 yard Charley target because of this. They don't use them on the modern LR target.

My "Bob S load" of 311284 with 42 grains of old 4831 gets very close to 2000 fps, and shot very accurately with manageable wind drift at 300 yards. I never used it at any longer range, because it would not be competitive in NMC shooting; and my M1 probably probably would have run out of useable elevation, andway. If I was going to try this, I think I would use the 311 or 314299 and 45 grains of 4831 to start. Larry G convinced me that this bullet will do better at ranges past 300. YMMV ...

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[Larry Gibson]

Shot a lot of 311284's and 311299's out of M1903's and 'A3's at 500 and 600 yards. Getting a load with either bullet that is fast enough to stay sonic and yet accurate given the velocity/RPM required is difficult. When I get around to shooting cast out of my M1903 National Match Type II at 1000 yards will probably be with a PP'd cast bullet. I prefer success even if hard to achieve to total frustration.

BTW; a Lyman 48 long slide should have enough elevation. The M1903 rear sight definitely does.

Larry Gibson

[1Shirt]

I believe that all the suggestions are good, and worth trying. That said, would hope you will post on your results
1shirt!

[GabbyM]

Just in case you don't have a Lyman book handy.
Published ballistic coefficient of the 311299 is .377.
Using that B.C. value in a ballistic program makes it look pretty hard to get to 1000 yards and stay super sonic.
I've never tried to hit 1,000 yard target with a bullet that transitioned into sub sonic so don't know haw hard that would be.
I seam to recall reading the boat-tail bullets have more problems than flat based bullets.

Some of us here are playing around with a little copper in our alloy along with water quench hardening to get more velocity. Personally I've been laid up this summer and not done much shooting. I'm healed up from surgery now and ready for harvest and the game.

[FAsmus]

Dedley;

I have some experience at shooting the 30'06 at long range with cast bullets.

I have found that, as other members have mentioned, that it is tough to keep a cast bullet super-sonic that far out. Not only that, even if you are successful at shooting fast (2000 + ft/sec) the little 30 caliber pills simply drift a lot if the wind gets up at all beyond 700 yards ~ and heaven help you if it huffs and puffs erratically!

Here at my place we have silhouettes placed from 350 on out to 834 - the 1000 is there but seldom used due to conflicting fields of fire with other portions of our facility.

My loads in the 30'06 are pretty much all with a heat-treated RCBS 30-180-SP. This bullet does very well and I can push it to 2000 ft/sec reliably; MOA in my 2-groove Enfield with the Redfield receiver sight @ 670 on a calm day and it does right well at the 834 yard distance in favorable conditions too.

Still, if it gets above 10 - 12 MPH the bullets move start moving around in a serious way. I've seen 10 or 12 feet of drift at the 834 distance ~ and the slightest change puts you off one side or the other.

The 1000 is the "supreme test" for small arms, let alone cast in a 30 caliber.

Good fortune to you.
Forrest