.38 special + P ++

[Char-Gar]

That Onceabull is a caution, isn't he?

Some time back, he offered me an AS NEW Model 15 S&W (K-frame .38, 4" barrel)and I was SORELY tempted. MY wife and daughter had given me a new-condition 4" Model 19 for my birthday just a few weeks earlier, and I simply couldn't justify (in my own mind) another K-frame that was so similar..... even at the attractive price Bill was asking.

What I didn't know was that I would have nightmares for years afterwards, wondering why in blazes I didn't buy that lovely little .38.... I STILL have that problem from time to time.

Onceabull is truly one of those "pushers" we hear about.

Did you say Model 19? Did you say Model 15? I just can't help myself. I do so crave these fine Smith and Wesson sixguns.

[gamma50]

settled on 4 grs. W231 with Lees 158 gr. TL SWC, not hot but not exact to reload info. I'll save my 125 gr. HPs for mag brass, if the brass ever goes down in price.no point arguing with great minds like yours.

[Whiterabbit]

OK.....

Now that this thread has settled a bunch, I'll creep out into the open and admit I do this, with very specific caveats. Here are the details:
the case is 357 mag
the load is 357 max
the load is a 357 max maxed out.
The gun is a handi rifle and can handle it.
----MOST IMPORTANT: I am confident the loads will never find their way into a revolver, ever. Why? well:



cylinder length 357 mag is on the far left, next to the far left is the 357 max load in a 357 mag case. The cylinder will never close, since the bullet will stick out about a half an inch. There is no need to worry about accidentally putting this round in any revolver. It simply will not fit.

I waited a couple weeks to post this, after reading the reaction of the first 10-20 replies in this thread. But I think now might be the appropriate time to admit the experimentation and the obvious caveats that go with it. Clearly, magnumizing a 38 or 357 in this way provides a built-in safety against accidentally putting the case in a gun that can no handle it. And that too was by design.

[Lonegun1894]

Now that is something I was thinking someone would come up with, Whiterabbit, but just had no clue who, and you took it beyond what I was thinking. May I ask bullet weight and velocity? That just seems like it should have some interesting potential, especially in your chosen weapon. I have thought about doing something similar with a .38 Spl case with a bullet heavy enough to make sure it won't chamber in any revolver just to use in my Contender as a .357 "whisper"-type loading. But I think your H&R would be much better for this than anything else without a can on it.

[Whiterabbit]

I can't remember EXACT numbers, so take this with a grain of salt. Pretty sure they are Hornady 250 grain spritzers. velocity in a 16" barrel sawed off handi is 1800 fps. someone on this forum, the first time I mentioned this load, said they quickloads modeled it and it came around to close to 40ksi for the modeled pressure. Dunno if that is true. The charge is H110, and comes up to about .1" off the case mouth. 18-19 grains, somewhere around there. After loading a couple dozen 357 max rounds like this (it looks quite normal) I wondered if I could do the same thing in a 357 mag case. same charge, same primer, same COAL, same everything. Cheap brass. And it was identical downrange, too. What amazes me is for a case full of H110, here is no muzzle flash. none.

Anyways, you guys should know, that that handi rifle is the only gun I own in 357-anything. I do have friends who have 357 revolvers, but we don't do much pistol shooting together, we don't really share ammo, and it wouldn't fit anyways. Noone I know owns a 357 levergun. So I've been comfy trying this. It WOULD be very different if I were playing with a 357 in a 38 case, or experimenting with short OAL high pressure stuff.

[Char-Gar]

No reason to hang back for you are not talking about the same thing as the OP.

He was talking about juicing up 38 Special cases in a handgun.

You are talking about loading rifle ammo using a handgun case.

Not the same thing at all.

[Whiterabbit]

I'm an engineer at heart, and think like one. I honestly don't see the distinction, minus the lack of fit (engineering safety measure, rather than administrative safety measure). Barring that, to me it is the exact same thing.

[Char-Gar]

I'm an engineer at heart, and think like one. I honestly don't see the distinction, minus the lack of fit (engineering safety measure, rather than administrative safety measure). Barring that, to me it is the exact same thing.

I know nothing about engineering and what you said is gibberish to me. I see a clear distinction, but no matter.

[leftiye]

It's nothing (the whole issue). And it don't matter unless you don't keep them segregated. What was that Shakespeare said? But we all know you're right, just ask you.

[Char-Gar]

It's nothing (the whole issue). And it don't matter unless you don't keep them segregated. What was that Shakespeare said? But we all know you're right, just ask you.

Thanks for the validation and no it does not matter if ammo is kept separate. But most things on this board don't have cosmic meaning or really matter much. It is just a bunch of men talking about the trivial stuff they do. It is not a contest of egos, but different points of view on common issues. Everyone is free to express their opinion and experience on this irrelevant stuff, for that is what we do here. I see no need or purpose served to take any of it personal or make any of it personal.

I hold firm opinions on many things in life, from religion, to politics, to government to family relationship to cast bullet shooting and many other things in life. On this, I am not an exception, but rather the rule on this board. I do tend to express those opinions in strong and assertive way, for that is my nature and personality. I guess I should be sorry if you find that offensive, but I truly am not concerned about that. If I am more than you can tolerate. I would suggest a judicious use of the "ignore" feature would be in order. That would be a better option that immature sniping.

[JakeBlanton]

I have a lot .38 special brass ,a lot marked LC 79, LC 80, this brass is tuff brass, a lot thicker than Winchester or Remington, all had crimped primers. and I found 1k 125 gr. Winchester JHP's.
now .357 brass is way up in price and since I have all this brass and bullets and don't intend to ever give to anyone else and will mark boxes saying "not for any .38 special firearms", I thought I could load this very close to magnum loads with 9 grs Unique . would this be safe in a Ruger
GP 100 or SP 100?

As some people have pointed out, there is the safety issue, but that is a matter of personal responsibility and if you are comfortable with the theoretical risks, then don't let that stop you.

Personally, I don't see a difference in doing this vs having rifles chambered in the various .45-70 categories (i.e. Trapdoor, Marlin lever action, and Ruger #1). You definitely would not want to shoot a max load Ruger #1 load out of a Trapdoor rifle. Now, from a practical standpoint though, a .357 mag powder load fired in a .38 special brass will result in higher pressure. If you load the bullet long in the .38 case though, you should end up with basically the same pressure as with the .357 mag.

[Whiterabbit]

Same effective pressure if seated to the same OAL. Afterall, the case capacity will be the same. And you are right, it is identical to the issues presented by the 45/70 categories. Of course, at this point we are not talking about a 38 +p++, we are simply taking a 357 mag load in a 38sp case.

[JakeBlanton]

Same effective pressure if seated to the same OAL. Afterall, the case capacity will be the same. And you are right, it is identical to the issues presented by the 45/70 categories. Of course, at this point we are not talking about a 38 +p++, we are simply taking a 357 mag load in a 38sp case.

Aren't the Ruger SP100 and GP100 that the OP mentioned .357mag revolvers?

[Whiterabbit]

the GP100 is, I'm told it is very tough.

[WilliamDahl]

Same effective pressure if seated to the same OAL. Afterall, the case capacity will be the same. And you are right, it is identical to the issues presented by the 45/70 categories. Of course, at this point we are not talking about a 38 +p++, we are simply taking a 357 mag load in a 38sp case.

There are some of us who own 10mm Glocks that load .40SW brass with 10mm powder charges and 10mm OAL. I would not have a problem doing the same with .38 special brass in a .357 mag revolver. I've never tired it though.

[WilliamDahl]

the GP100 is, I'm told it is very tough.

I just did a quick web search and it appears that there is not an SP100, but rather a SP101 and that both the GP100 and SP101 are available in .357 mag and .38 special.

Looking at the wiki page on the SP101...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_SP101

I see that the KSP-831 (.38 special +P) and KSP--331X (.357 mag) are the same weight. That makes me wonder if perhaps they are the same exact firearm except with a slightly different chamber / cylinder. If so, I can see that being desirable for places that allow a person to own a .38, but not a .357. I believe that is the case in Mexico for its citizens -- or at least it *used* to be (I'm not sure what the leftists down there are doing these days).

[gamma50]

I have a SP-101 .357 mag, if I wrote something else then beat me.

[9.3X62AL]

I have a SP-101 .357 mag, if I wrote something else then beat me.

Nah, I'll pass. Too long of a drive.

[JakeBlanton]

I have a SP-101 .357 mag, if I wrote something else then beat me.

Looking back at your post, it appears that you did say SP 100. Consider yourself e-flogged with a wet noodle.



I didn't see which calibers you had for the GP 100 and SP 101, but since you say .357 mag in the SP 101, I will assume that it is the same in the GP 100. That would be the only concern as far as I would be concerned. Personally, I would load it at .357 mag length, but that's up to you.

[gamma50]

jake I only have .38 special brass, I can't afford to buy anymore .357 mag brass. if your saying load .38s to magnum levels then what was the argument everyone else made? I can't fit 20 grs. H-110 in a .38 so I was thinking 8.5 grs. of Unique with WSPrimer. I figure fast enough and a lot better than a .38 +p, which it would be a .38 +p+ with a 125 gr. JHP. its my firearm , my life , and I'm not out to kill someone, but if I had to I'd rather have a little more power with these HPs. +p load data drives this bullet at 1,082fps, I'd like at least 1,200 fps with this bullet, other wise I'll just load .38 SWC at .38 pressures till I am able to buy a few k ..357s. tell me what your thinking when you say "I would load it at .357 mag length, but that's up to you." I can't get mag length with a .38.