$10 epoxy coat can it be done? lets find out

[jmort]

Nice look. I agree: "The matte black allows the paint to really stick."

[bangerjim]

Yes, turn the pressure down as low as you can get to provide a 'puff' of powder. You probably need a secondary regulator, the primary will determine when the motor runs. The HF gun has a valve, not regulator, which has worked good for me. I run the compressor <25psi and use the valve a bit. Others regulate to 15 or so psi. Other thing I found was you have to run it higher if the powder gets damp, I bang the jar a lot to keep it 'powdery'.

As I stated earlier somewhere on here sometime, HF sells a very tiny really nice REAL pressure reducing regulator with a gauge for around $6. That is what I use right off the main 130# air line from my shop compressor. I keep it set at around 10-12# and it works very well. As popper stated, the knob on the gun is just a valve that controls flow NOT pressure!!!!!

I have also found the coating does not start sticking right away. Keep spraying. All of a sudden, the powder will magically start to coat REAL fast. It must be something to do with the static that has to build up in the gun or the higher humidity I have now here in AZ. But after about 15 seconds, the coating really starts happening. The powder should flow gently out, not "burst" out of the gun. And use the smallest cone it comes with. Only use about an 1-1½" of powder in the container.

And yes, you do want to bump the container on the gun FREQUENTLY with your palm to keep the powder in a "fluidized bed" state in gun jar. Many times you can hear it "bubbling" inside. That is when the best flows seem to take place. The trick is to keep the powder fluid in the container and out the nozzle of the gun.

bangerjim

[35 shooter]

Ran another small test with vht epoxy and vht ceramic paint this weekend. I cured both at 200 degrees for 10 minutes, waited till next day and heat treated at 475 degrees for 1 hour then water dropped.The next day it would not fingernail off. Both types had 2 coats of paint applied.
The epoxy came out at .362 and ceramic at .363 and.364 dia. Ran both thru sizing die at .360.
The epoxy lightly scrapped off on back side of bands slightly but the ceramic did not. Bangerjim says 1 coat on epoxy so i'll try that next but i don't believe 1 coat is going to stand rifle vel. In fact i'm going to heat treat some tonight.
This will be for use in a 35 whelen.

In the meantime i tried the ceramic with enough4759 for 2200 fps. The first shot went 1 inch high and the next 4 went about 3/8 inch at 100 yards, next shot went 1 inch low and the next went 1/2 inch lower. It had started lightly leading after the first 5 shots then changed impact. It looked as if it was cleaning out what little lead there was but not enough to keep it from changing impact.
I'm still going to try the epoxy with one coat this week but it looks like the ceramic won't work in rifles but might in pistols? The accurracy is darn sure there till it starts leading. That's frustrating. By the way the leading WAS light and brushed out easily.
Looks like azshooter2013 came up with something that WILL work in pistols with the epoxy and that's good but i'll try in the rifle again at least one more time because the accurracy potential has me hooked. I believe this stuff would shoot like jacketed if i can stop the leading.

[bangerjim]

After using the HF matte black (1 coat) for a base, you can spray on other "stuff" like my copper-heads above or use other paints. Here is my latest Zombie Ammo loads, 300g 45LC's made with standard matte HF base and then ONE coat of Krylon lite green "plastic" paint. The plastic paint forms a molecular bond with plastics so it really sticks to the PC. I sprayed them one time and baked at 250F for 20 min.

The next day they went thru sizing with no loss, even though there was a little drag, as the coating added a bit to the diameter. Will not scrape off.

Attachment 82314

The two in the back were just a trial with some florescent green, but it has to be on a white base to really show up. They do glow real nice under blacklite!!!!!!

Now I am ready for some head-splitting Zombie attack action!!!!!! HA.....ha.

bangerjim

[35 shooter]

Tried epoxy again with as light a coat as i could and still get the boolits covered, then cooked at 200 for 10 minutes.
Last night i heat treated at 460 degrees for 1 hour then water dropped.
Today i couldn't get any off with a fingernail so i ran them thru 360 sizer and again it lightly scrapped off in places along the bands. The original dia. was .362 before sizing. I'm not going to try shooting with lead exposed like that.

Oh well. I still think it would work and stay on thru sizer if my boolit was .3585 or .3590 but my mould pours a little larger than this even with ww. Guess i could try sizing to .359 first then painting then back thru the sizer again.
Pc sounds better and better. But for now back to traditional lube, hunting seasons right around the corner.

[RP]

I have been looking at some of the post here on this coating and without going back and reading all of them I have a ? If you under size the bullet to say 451 then coat and your looking a 452 or 453 bullet would that be something that would work. I understand how much is sprayed effects this but running it in a die just sizing to uniform them may be easier without so much size reduction.

[jonp]

Hey all. Post # 2!
Just stopped at auto zone on the way home from work and bought the two cans they had for $15 and change. The guy asked what I was using it for " 'cause he heard good things about it" and I reluctantly spewed out the boolit coating speech. He said, "yea, that's why the store manager buys all of that we get in".
Who in the Brownstown/Flat Rock area of Michigan that's the store manager of the auto zone is a caster/loader?
BTW, I'm the ultimate noob at casting and you guys are a true inspiration. You're making me spend a lot of money on everything from lead to molds to antique cast iron muffin pans. My wife will probably seek out and kill every one of you.
If you live long enough, I hope to post up some of my own tests with the coatings and be a true contributor to this site so you can see how you've helped me.
Thanks.

Mine came home and noticed the cast iron corncob muffin pan missing from the wall. Cost me dinner out and garage saleing to find a new one. I feel your pain

[35 shooter]

I have been looking at some of the post here on this coating and without going back and reading all of them I have a ? If you under size the bullet to say 451 then coat and your looking a 452 or 453 bullet would that be something that would work. I understand how much is sprayed effects this but running it in a die just sizing to uniform them may be easier without so much size reduction.

RP that's what i was trying to say in post 166. My rifle shoots well with .359 or .360 boolits so sizing to .359 first then painting might work. But i think you probably have to keep the dia. of the lead at a point where it will take the rifeling well, but yes i think it might work. I've been trying to size paint and boolit to the max size all at the same time but that hasn't worked. Just a guess tho.

[Centaur 1]

I came upon this thread last night and I just got done reading all the posts. One thing really bothers me, the use of ceramic paint. Ceramic is VERY hard, in fact it's so hard that it's used as a coating on carbide cutting tools. Using ceramic paint will more than likely work to fire lap when first used, then continue to abrade the bore until you eventually have a smoothbore.

[35 shooter]

I came upon this thread last night and I just got done reading all the posts. One thing really bothers me, the use of ceramic paint. Ceramic is VERY hard, in fact it's so hard that it's used as a coating on carbide cutting tools. Using ceramic paint will more than likely work to fire lap when first used, then continue to abrade the bore until you eventually have a smoothbore.

Centaur1 that was definitly a concern on my mind when i tried it. I did say in that last post on it that the coating didn't work. It wasn't even removing the light leading i was getting.
Iwill say the only reason i tried it was the paint didn't set up like a ceramic plate or knife sharpener or the like.
It did get hard enough to go thru the sizer and flexible enough to stay with the boolit after heat treating. But it didn't make it out the barrel intact at even mid range rifle velocity.

But you are right, commercial finishes on tools, ever how they do that, is almost diamond like in hardness and WOULD definitly cause wear on steel. I will say it again as i did in an above post ....The ceramic finish DID NOT work. If it had i would have tried again and watched for any signs of bbl wear but that's a mute point now because it won't stay on for the ride down the bore. Probably a good thing because i definitly wouldn't want me or anyone else to ruin a bbl. because of some experiment i had tried. I think a good idea when experimenting with any coating on a boolit would be to keep slugging the bore for any change until your'e sure of it.

[lawboy]

Ok. I tried the VHT method on some 207gr. .45ACP LSWC cast from my Mihec brass mould. In a word,
Fantastic. Thanks to the OP for sharing his method with us.
I had great results right out of the gate. Coated 21 boolits. Passed the fingernail and hammer tests. Fired 18 if them semi rapid fire at 50 feet. Grouped fine, no less I g or vote residue of any kid really. The holes in the paper were so clean they loomed hole punched. Not even a hint of a grease ring or anything!
These bullets I sized after coating and that worked although sizing effort through a Lyman 450 was noticeably greater than uncoated lead. The next batch will be sized first. I used the FLAT BLACK coating not gloss.
Here is my process. Size bullets. Tumble in can a few seconds to Smith out any flash from sizing. Stand bullets up on steel plate in rows. Preheat with blower Heater for a couple minutes. Spray on VHT. WAIT 10 minutes. Spray on second coat. Now I let them sit 30 minutes before putting j to toaster oven at 300f for 10-15 mins. OR just let them sit for a week and dry.
I like this a lot and I am going to try the white next.

[LubeckTech]

The OP tumbled the VHT on to the boolits but I notice some folks are spraying.
Which method is easier and/or better?
Are 3 coats necessary for pistol calibers up to 1,200fps or will 2 work?
I have been power coating for th past fw months with pretty good results but would like to find something a little easier. I have been thinking of trying some Hi-Tek but want to try this first.

[Danderdude]

On a whim I stopped by Advance Auto and grabbed a can of VHT gloss and VHT matte, along with a can of lacquer thinner from Lowes.

My little bit of experimenting this evening with tumbling was fruitful. Pictured below is straight spraying with gloss VHT tumbling (right), and spraying with 1cc of lacquer thinner per 4 seconds of spraying (left).

Large image: http://i.imgur.com/7hpi9vY.jpg

This gives a very uneven coating. VHT becomes tacky EXTREMELY quickly once sprayed. After 10 minutes, it was practically slick and no longer sticky. I tossed them into the toaster oven @ 250F for 15 minutes, and they were done. I mean, completely cured and finished. However, they will need a second coat at the very least.

Then I tried 1cc of thinner per 2 seconds of spraying (right). This produced a smoother and much more even coat, definitely glossier. However, this produced thick spots from liquid bridging where two rested against each other for any length of time.

I repeated this 1cc:2 seconds ratio with some 3 day old Lee 160gr .452 boolits (left side, the two on the table). Those immediately went into the hardware cloth basket and the toaster oven @ 300F for 10 minutes. As soon as they were cool enough to handle they were easily sized from .454 to .452 in a Lee push-through. There was no indication to the finish that the bullets had been through a sizer, it's that slick that fast. Almost no effort was needed. They passed the smash test with flying colors, but the coating comes off with lacquer thinner and rubbing.


Large: http://i.imgur.com/fAw7ZAd.jpg
The remainder were given a second tumble after sizing with straight spray (above left, in the bin). This produced a complete, but not perfectly smooth, coat.

Shooting trials begin tomorrow morning.

[lawboy]

Why are people tumbling vht? Seems like more work for a lower quality coating. I stand the bullets on a plastic cutting board, put a box over them with a heater under the box for 2-3 minutes to preheat the bullets. I spray them with vht. The hot bullets cause the volatile carrier to evaporate more quickly, and the epoxy to adhere faster and better. I replace the box and heater for10 minutes then spray again. Let them set a couple hours - I wait overnight- and they are done. Finish is fantastic and bullets perform.

[HNSB]

I just ordered the glass black from Amazon. I think I'll eventually get a powder gun for ES PC, but this lets me get started in coating with a much lower entry cost.

I can't wait for it to get here.

[Danderdude]

Why are people tumbling vht?

It's the only economical way. If you stand each up and spray them, it not only takes longer than Alox tumbling, but you waste 9/10th's of the can spraying your table. If you want pretty at any cost, this stuff'll give that to you in spades, but it's certainly not cheaper, in the long run, compared to HiTek, or 45-45-10.

Also, you mention you are heating your boolits to flash off the solvent. In paints, the slower it cures, to more crosslinking can occur during polymerization and therefor a tougher, longer-lasting covering results. VHT wipes right back off with a little lacquer thinner. I think it dries too quickly as it is.

My experimentation with VHT is now over. It works, but not economically. What it does offer is a no-bake alternative to PC and HiTek without the stickiness of LLA, but will cost you more than a Star sizer in the long run. I'm pretty sure nearly any epoxy paint will serve the same purpose.


Those 160gr .45 pills from above were loaded over 5.9gr Red Dot and went down the barrel of my Sarsilmaz K2 with no leading, no residue other than powder, and all hit center mass on a gong @25 yards double tap fast fire. The second mag was emptied into a gong with a pile of very coarse sand in front of it. I'm pretty sure the sand scoured off most of the coating, and they mushroomed beautifully for being such short boolits, but there was still some VHT on the driving bands where the expanding head protected it.

I do believe I'm gonna try HiTek now. VHT is great for repainting press parts. My Lee cast iron turret press handle is quite fetching now.

[Danderdude]

I'll reiterate, too, my best tumble coating with VHT came from putting on a light "primer" coat of epoxy + lacquer thinner at a rate of 1cc of thinner per 3 seconds of spraying, letting that set up, and following up with a second coat of paint only, no thinner. This is a no-bake recipe. There's absolutely no reason to bake; we're not dealing with plastic particles having to get to their glass transition temperature like PC or HiTek.

[HNSB]

I shot my test loads of these yesterday, and sighted in my gun with them today.
I was very happy with the performance.

I still plan on getting a PC gun, but for the $11 to get started the VHT was a good option.

I did two coats of spray on - standing the bullets on their bases. These are plain base bullets, with no gas check. I was pushing them at just over 1500 FPS out of my Marlin 1895 and had no leading.

I think a can of VHT would do about 1000 of these 405 grain bullets, depending on how many are sprayed in a batch.

[freebullet]

This forum is great, you have a thought & find a 10 page thread too read. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

[eljefeoz]

Looks like this is it?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VHT-EPOXY...e7bf9a3&_uhb=1

I'd like to give it a go on some pure lead Lee 230gr TL in .452
As long as I can get away with no baking...any more non bakers getting good results out there?
TIA