$10 epoxy coat can it be done? lets find out

[blueeyephil]

Shotgundrums, thanks for the pics. I'm going to try that. I'm getting good results but that looks pretty easy. I'm assuming that you are letting your bullets dry prior to dropping in the coating. Is that correct? And did you try to do an additional coat? Doesn't look like it would be needed on the pistol bullets but was just wondering.

[Shotgundrums]

Shotgundrums, thanks for the pics. I'm going to try that. I'm getting good results but that looks pretty easy. I'm assuming that you are letting your bullets dry prior to dropping in the coating. Is that correct? And did you try to do an additional coat? Doesn't look like it would be needed on the pistol bullets but was just wondering.

No problem, this stuff is fun. These were coated three times. This soap mix is thick1 part soap 1 part water lol. AND...this will work too......you ready?......add a dab of JUST soap to your pile of bullets and work the bullets around in your hands until they feel sorta 'greased.' Once they're greased and sticky throw em into your vat of pc. Pick them up out of the pc with needle nose pliers and tap the bullets on a surface to remove excess. Then just set em and heat em up I cooked these at 380 for 15m.

[blueeyephil]

I tried to do that using glue but I know that I used way too much. You should start another thread with your pictures and a description. Kind of off topic for this thread.

I sure appreciate the folks on this forum! So many ideas, some great, some lessons learned.

[StratsMan]

Wow... I like simple, and this thread really got me going...

I also DON'T like all the smoke that comes from shooting PB boolits... I know, 99% of casters say "you don' need no stinkin' gas check on 38's or 45's"... I still hate the cloud in front of my muzzle when I pull the trigger, especially indoors... So I've been trying Powder Coating, using a Sears electric PC kit, with marginal success... Gotta be a better way!! And this may be it...

I just drilled some holes in a scrap board to stand up some boolits, tip down, 'cuz I like to cover the base instead of using a Gas Check... Kinda makes 'em look like the old Winchester Silver Tips, doesn't it??!! Sprayed a coat, let air dry, spray another coat, air dry and bake... Toaster oven was set at 350 deg, but not certain what the real temp was... let 'em bake 10-15 minutes....

Oh yeah... this is the VHT 'epoxy' paint from the auto store...


Attachment 80961

[bangerjim]

Well, I picked up a can of their hi-temp copper engine paint and tried it.

Did six 45 slugs.....extras & rejects I was going to melt over.

The directions say to spray 3 coats, let totally dry and bake.....for an HOUR(!) at 200F. Well, I don't have that much patience, so I sprayed on a coat, stuck them in the oven for a couple minutes to heat the boolits a bit, spayed on another coat, and baked for 35 min @ 300F. Let cool in oven to 120F. That was 9AM.

At 4PM, I checked hardness and they made it thru sizer, and I cannot fingernail them.

Now for a smash test when I get the chance today.

They look really great, but shooting will have to wait for a few days.

Attachment 81034

bangerjim

[bangerjim]

Save your time & money! The copper stuff does NOT work for us

It is a nice looking PAINT "covering" but flakes off when pounded.

And acetone will wipe it right off. So much for the claims on the can of chemical resistance!

I'm stickin' with ES gun applied powder. Still do not have any confidence in the VHT epoxy sprayed on paint in a can when it comes to leading.

I KNOW for SURE the electroStatic-gun applied PC coating will not come off and stops all leading in my guns. And at HF, it is really inexpensive.

bangerjim

[sirAIG]

VHT shot yesterday showed no leading at all. That being said, I am not sure if I was having an "off" day, or if it was the VHT - but my accuracy was poor. I will be doing some more tests this weekend between it, and traditional DARR lube - which I know to be accurate in my gun.

[35 shooter]

Bangerjim i thought the vht passed the hammer test and acetone wipe so why don't you have confidence in it to not lead the bbl?
My auto zone got some in today and i got a can of flat black. Didn't have any heat treated boolits ready so i coated a few cww's for an initial test in my whelen at about 1800 fps. Hope it works.

[fastglock]

Save your time & money! The copper stuff does NOT work for us

It is a nice looking PAINT "covering" but flakes off when pounded.

And acetone will wipe it right off. So much for the claims on the can of chemical resistance!

I'm stickin' with ES gun applied powder. Still do not have any confidence in the VHT epoxy sprayed on paint in a can when it comes to leading.

I KNOW for SURE the electroStatic-gun applied PC coating will not come off and stops all leading in my guns. And at HF, it is really inexpensive.

bangerjim

Hey, it was still worth the effort. I still have a full can of gloss black.

Powder coating is not your typical coating.Its frieken Tough! And cheaper. And faster to cure. No brainer pick.

[bangerjim]

Bangerjim i thought the vht passed the hammer test and acetone wipe so why don't you have confidence in it to not lead the bbl?
My auto zone got some in today and i got a can of flat black. Didn't have any heat treated boolits ready so i coated a few cww's for an initial test in my whelen at about 1800 fps. Hope it works.

The EPOXY version DID. I was testing only the Copper Engine Hi-Temp Paint they make. It does NOT stick like we want. I was just passing on my experimental results. And trying to save y'all some time and money!

Last night I did spray the VHT copper "enamel paint" onto some already coated FLAT BLACK HF PC'd slugs, baked them at 300F for 15 min. Amazingly the copper stuff stuck to the PC very well. It should stand the pound test, as the PC is the base coat. The copper is only for looks anyway! I doubt if it will stick to gloss anything.

ES gun PC'ing is still much cheaper and actually faster. But I like to "play around"!

bangerjim

[StratsMan]

ES gun PC'ing is still much cheaper and actually faster. But I like to "play around"!

bangerjim

I must be doing it wrong, then... I don't have a solid jig set up to move boolits from spraying to oven... some fall and I have to handle them... that's a mess...

Heck, if it comes down to cheap, then just putting wax in a lube groove is pretty darn cheap...

[35 shooter]

The EPOXY version DID. I was testing only the Copper Engine Hi-Temp Paint they make. It does NOT stick like we want. I was just passing on my experimental results. And trying to save y'all some time and money!

Last night I did spray the VHT copper "enamel paint" onto some already coated FLAT BLACK HF PC'd slugs, baked them at 300F for 15 min. Amazingly the copper stuff stuck to the PC very well. It should stand the pound test, as the PC is the base coat. The copper is only for looks anyway! I doubt if it will stick to gloss anything.

ES gun PC'ing is still much cheaper and actually faster. But I like to "play around"!

bangerjim

Ok got it. I can tell you've been doing this coating thing for awhile so tell me where i went wrong.
I got the flat black epoxy and sprayed three coats like it said but i think i got it too thick cause it made a lip around the base. Anyway i let it dry about an hour and put it oven at only 200 degrees. it kind of puddled on the flat part of the nose (boolits were standing on bases for painting and heating) bubbled a bit between lube grooves.
I baked 10 minutes 3 times. Paint turned gloss black. It rubs off easily with fingernail.

I did another batch last night and let dry over night. I put them in the oven tonight on 375 degrees for 10 minutes
and there was slight puddling in between the grooves and the paint actually swelled out on the side of one nose.
The finish stayed flat black so i cooked again at 310 then again at 320 ten minutes each time.
The paint shrunk back as it cooled, but still am i using too much paint? What do you think? First time i've tried
this coating thing.

[felixXJ]

Are these cured top or bottom down? Would this work with the long Lee .309 230's lying on their sides as they are to long and tippy to stand straight up? Would some 1/4" screen or some kind of metal mesh make a better curing platform for these bullets with this method? Thanx for the pics and the info!

[felixXJ]

I've used the VHT Gloss with a single coat cured at 200 for 10-12 minutes on some fresh cast. They passed the hammer test but it scraped off of the high points during .309 sizing. Admittedly, the mineral spirits in the Lee Alox I used for sizing may have softened the coating. I may try some more and size either with no lube or simple Frankford case lube. I may even Flitz polish my sizer with a bore mop also.

[sirAIG]

Im having luck not using any lube while sizing. Minimal effort and not signs of anything bad happening.

[bangerjim]

I've used the VHT Gloss with a single coat cured at 200 for 10-12 minutes on some fresh cast. They passed the hammer test but it scraped off of the high points during .309 sizing. Admittedly, the mineral spirits in the Lee Alox I used for sizing may have softened the coating. I may try some more and size either with no lube or simple Frankford case lube. I may even Flitz polish my sizer with a bore mop also.

Skip ANY lube on sizing! I size my boolits RAW right out of the mold and then AGAIN after coating.

Unless your mold is waaaaaaay off, they should easily slip thru the die. And you will NOT "lead" the die, even if the fit is rather tight! Lead (even 22bnh+) is much softer than the steel in the die. And you are not at sub or sonics speeds like in a gun barrel that cause leading!!!! I have sized many thousands of all cals in 9/30/38/40/45 without any lube. I now have many of those little bottles of brown "mule snot" on the shelf!

I have not done any research on lube dissolving the VHT coatings yet. I mentioned that somewhere, but if anybody has any info......please share. The solvents in the lube may be softening the VHT. It will NOT soften the gun-applied powder from what I have seen. Acetone will slightly soften the red and yellow HF (and eventually wipe it off) but not the black HF.

Go for it......and skip the lube.

bangerjim

[bangerjim]

Ok got it. I can tell you've been doing this coating thing for awhile so tell me where i went wrong.
I got the flat black epoxy and sprayed three coats like it said but i think i got it too thick cause it made a lip around the base. Anyway i let it dry about an hour and put it oven at only 200 degrees. it kind of puddled on the flat part of the nose (boolits were standing on bases for painting and heating) bubbled a bit between lube grooves.
I baked 10 minutes 3 times. Paint turned gloss black. It rubs off easily with fingernail.

I did another batch last night and let dry over night. I put them in the oven tonight on 375 degrees for 10 minutes
and there was slight puddling in between the grooves and the paint actually swelled out on the side of one nose.
The finish stayed flat black so i cooked again at 310 then again at 320 ten minutes each time.
The paint shrunk back as it cooled, but still am i using too much paint? What do you think? First time i've tried
this coating thing.

It sounds like to me you using waaaaaay too much paint! (And that stuff in rather expensive!) And baking too much. ( I wish I could get my wife to bake that much! ) The couple hundred I have successfully coated with the VHT gloss black epoxy sprayed-on (not tumbled) were only coated with ONE (1) coat and one(1) single bake. Just check to see if the entire boolit is well covered and not running off. Then into the oven at 300F for about 15 minutes. (Who ever reads and follows the directions on the box???? )

Coating as above, I get an even coat (base down) with no bubbling, puddling, or "feet" on the things. They almost fall off the NS foil after I take them out. I have pounded several 38 and 45 cal's flat and the epoxy seems to stick. Have not had any range tests yet.

I really think you need to back off on the coats.

bangerjim

[bangerjim]

I must be doing it wrong, then... I don't have a solid jig set up to move boolits from spraying to oven... some fall and I have to handle them... that's a mess...

Heck, if it comes down to cheap, then just putting wax in a lube groove is pretty darn cheap...

What cal's and syles are you coating? Knowing that will help us talk jigs. And heaven knows, there enough styles on this site.......all work for what they are designed to do.

I do all including 30's for my 30-06. Those take a special jig to hold the GC area or they do fall over easily. Can you say dominos? There is a post by me on here describing how I make the very simple & cheap 30 cal GC holding jig.

All others I just set on NS aluminum foil. They come off very easily after baking. You have to put a piece of Al roof flashing on the wire rack and cover it with foil or they will fall over!

Don't know your layout, but I have to only turn around from my spray/coat bench to my oven, so spillage/drop-age is not a problem for me......unless one of the cats is under my feet!

bangerjim

[35 shooter]

Bangerjim to much paint was the problem it turns out. Second batch did much better.
In the mean time i tried the vht ceramic, my excuse being i've never fooled with any coating so i don't know any
better.
I put 3 light coats like the directions said and let dry about an hour. Looked great. Anyway got busy sizing some boolits and about 3 hours later i came back and baked them per the instructions..200 degrees for 30 min. let cool for 30 min. 400 degrees for 30 min. let cool for 30 min. then it says 600 but of course that was too hot for lead so i did 450 degrees for 30 more min. Didn't have any confidence in any of this and was just trying it for kicks.
Sure enough about an hour later i could scrape it to the lead with my fingernail, tho i had to try pretty hard.
But this morning they were definitely harder. This evening when i got home from work they WERE hard.
With a smooth nail i couldn't scrape it off. Finally got some off with a rough spot on one nail. Did a hammer test with regular carpenter hammer and mashed it half flat first time and nothing came off. Finally mashed it completely flat and some came off the bottom side butm that was after beating the heck out of it. It went thru sizing die no lube no problems no flakeing.

This stuff is pretty darn hard but it has a rougher tecture to it.
My question to you guys is if it makes it out the bbl., do you think the texture will cause bbl. wear? The epoxy FEELS
slicker. Anyway i'm surprised it turned out like it did and it feels like it might work.
Am i crazy to try and shoot it?

By the way guys don't rush out and spend any money yet cause i have no idea how it's gonna turn out. Understand i've never done any of this coating stuff before.

[felixXJ]

I discovered something this morning. I was cleaning the lube out of my sizing die with a can of K&W carb cleaner. Just for an experiment i did the tumble method in a plastic bowl with HF red and a few shots of the carb cleaner. I've used acetone before, terrible results, went back to spray on methods. This time however is the first time I've had a successfull even coating with the HF red with the tumble method. I'm curing the test run right now. Someone else try this to verify. Maybe this is a way to make the cheap red HF powder manageable. Perhaps it's the heptane.