D2 tool steel makes a heck of a knife but BOY is it a PITA to sharpen!
Bill
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D2 tool steel makes a heck of a knife but BOY is it a PITA to sharpen!
Bill
If it was easy, anybody could do it.
Not to belabor the Viking sword portion of the thread, but what I take away after looking at the archaeological and metallurgical evidence and the opinions of those studying it in detail about the Viking sword in general and the very few Ulfberht specimens remaining--- the generic Viking swords were not unlike many of the European swords of the period. The major difference with the Viking Ulfberht was: the steel and the method of forging/heat treating was far ahead of other, comparable European swords. I imagine the average blades coming out of "Ole's" ye olde Viking sword shop were the product of whatever iron and/or steel and forging technology available and known at the time. At sometime one (or more) Viking blade smith's or shops gained access to what is likely raw Damascus steel (or something very similar) via the Volga trade route. Likewise, somehow and at some time, the knowledge to maximize the Damascus steel's properties in forging a quality sword blade was gained. The surviving Viking swords marked Ulfberht seem to support that possible conclusion or hypothesis.
Last edited by fouronesix; 08-22-2013 at 01:56 PM.
That was an AWESOME documentary! Thank you for posting the link!Originally Posted by monadnock#5
Having been "OFF THE AIR" for several years, the last thing I had in mind was to start a food fight now.
I agree 100% that the crucible steel used in the "real" +ULFBEHR+T's probably originated in Iran as was stated in the program.
I've found simple explanations of steel technology to be rare. Steel metallurgy really isn't that hard to understand however. The main purpose in my reference to the program wasn't to glorify the Viking way or their technology.
I asked my Dad once when I was a kid what made Damascus steel special. To say I was confused when he was done would be a gross understatement. The explanations I've received since then have been likewise contradictory to say the least.
If one should watch the program I linked, you will know what makes Damascus, or any other steel special.
One other thing. Steel as it leaves the foundry is called steel because all the various ingredients necessary for that particulay alloy have been mixed in the correct proportions and molded into a form specified by the customer. Provided that the foundry gets those things right, you still have a product that is steel in name only however. The next step is heat treatment. That's where the quality of the final product, or lack thereof, is made.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
Winston Churchill
Looking around, there are US makers offering D2 and D1 tool steel knives already finished with sheaths for 40.00 with shipping.
I think that is about as reasonable as I am going to get. No good Damascus that I can identify, but a lot of tool steel knives out there.
I came into this world kicking, screaming, and covered in someone elses blood. I plan to go out the same way.
x101airborne, it sounds as though the boot knife you already have will fulfill the conditions you outlined!
Ole Jack
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"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we faulter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln.
+ 1 on that! One of the problems is that for the past 100+ years information about Damascus steel has been conflicting with a bunch of info put out and written that was plain wrong. As to the Viking Ulfberht, at that time in history it wouldn't surprise me if at some time evidence is uncovered which suggests that not only the areas around Damascus were trading high quality crucible steels to many parts of the world including the Viking areas but that wootz originating in India was also widespread, including far NW Europe via the Silk Road and connecting trade routes.
One thing not mentioned here and that was emphasized in the video and with everything I have ever read about Damascus swords - what was gained was not just hardness but hardness and flexibility - these swords didn't break like other swords, they bent.
How much flexibility do I need in a pocket knife or sheath knife?
I'll be satisfied with D2 or 154CM.
Wayne the Shrink
There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!
The ideal owner of the ideal knife will choose the one job he selected his knife for, and never use it for anything else. Caping, boning, butchering... you would need something different for each.
Not being the ideal owner myself, the one or two knives I carry at any one time get treated like a toolbox. One knife is saved for special occasions. The other, regardless of its price is the disposable. It gets used in whatever way I see fit at the moment.
A few minutes ago I watched a video on the Cold Steel website to see if they still believe clamping one of their Bowie's in a vise, placing a 3' long pipe over the handle and then bending the blade beyond 45° out of alignment was in any way indicative of the quality of their products. Indeed, they still do.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
Winston Churchill
For those interested in what a good tool steel blade will withstand, watch Destroying the Deuce by some Montana blade makers. The same blade is used with no re-sharpening for the whole video.
"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." A. Brilliant
Listen to knifemaker.
Any metal is easily sharpened with the right equipment.
As to the OP about Damascus steel and the confusion about its definition. I dug out three blades and took a pic of each to maybe show the difference between pattern welded (what some have called Damascus steel for a long time) and what really is crucible Damascus or wootz steel. The whole difference is that the patterns of inclusions (grain structure) if any are already in the ingot of wootz. As the ingot is forged/drawn into a blade the structure is simply stretched or manipulated and shows the resulting patterns (if any). I included one blade that was made from a Damascus ingot but only shows a blotchy appearance. And a section of pattern welded rifle barrel for comparison
Each has a smooth surface but the lighting makes the surfaces appear rough.
pics:
A pattern welded example from Bali (what most incorrectly call "Damascus")
A very early Indo-Persian blade of blotchy Damascus steel
A Qajar Dynasty Persian blade of Damascus wootz showing classic structure
And, an Indo-Persian pattern welded rifle barrel for comparison
Last edited by fouronesix; 08-30-2013 at 04:51 PM.
I've had pretty good luck with Japanese made knives. My most favored kitchen knife is a Kershaw Shun 7 inch Santuko that I paid $150.00 for, about 7 years ago. It's an alloyed stainless modeled after the Damascus concept. Also have a Japanese made ceramic blade paring knife which I bought at the same time, $50.00. Still great, only gets used about once every week or two, still sharp, never been resharpened.
For hunting knives, my Randall Made 5 inch Skinner and/or a circa 1967 Case XX Bulldog folding knife.
In spite of being stainless, the Kershaw has proven to be so hard that it requires a diamond impregnated sharpener to dress the edge. Except for that one knife, I'm just too stubborn and old fashioned to give up my preference for high carbon steel blades. It's OK if they get stained. Keep the edge dressed, wash it by hand, dry it with a kitchen towel then on a warm stove top, teach that to your children and if they pass it on it'll still be carving the supper roast for your great, great grandchildren.
Although I have seen some nicely made and very serviceable custom knives fabricated from old power hacksaw blades and truck or bus leaf springs, other than the occasional garage sale find, "you get what you pay for" usually applies to knives.
If you ever order a custom knife from Randall, although worth the wait, you can be looking at a one year lead time
smokeywolf.
Last edited by smokeywolf; 08-31-2013 at 04:13 PM. Reason: Punctuation
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms *shall not be infringed*.
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- Thomas Jefferson
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- Rev. Nicholas Collin, Fayetteville Gazette (N.C.), October 12, 1789
Agreed about some of the Japanese made stuff. At one time I'd recoil at the thought, but with omnipresent Chinese materials permeating very single thread of our existence, I'm to the point of buying anything BUT Chinese- if possible?. Even the much maligned stainless steel bladed Buck can be very serviceable- I learned some of the Buck blades are simply too thick to be effectively sharpened and they do require a diamond hone for best results. I set out to change one-- thinned the blade, changed the curve profile, re-did the hollow grind then re-set the edge angle and it became my go-to knife. Some of the collectible, antique and custom knives/blades are too valuable to lose or damage so they add weight to the safe.
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