Lyman Mold number suffixes

[dale2242]

I am new to this forum. Have been casting for 30+ yrs. Just noticed that some of my Lyman molds have suffixes after the numbers. For instance: 429421CM--410459A--and some with U's . I know the u is for undersize molds but have no idea what the others mean. Maybe some of you can enlighten me. There must be a chart or some reference that you guys can tell me about. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks ---dale

[floodgate]

Dale:

We've had many posts on this; to summarize, a TWO-letter suffix right after the number identifies the outside vendor who made the cherry (usually a letter high in the alphabet, like V or X ) and the first indicates which in a series of cherries by the same vendor - e.g.; 357123BY (a "phoney" number used for example) would indicate that this was the second cherry made for Lyman by vendor "Y"). This is since sometime in the late '70's, I think. The "U" for "undesrsized" PREcedes the mould number - e.g.: U311414. A single suffix "S" can mean either "short" (i.e.; the cherry inserted less deeply into the blocks to give a shorter bullet) or "small" for an older .38 caliber bullet made to fit Colt 0.354-0.355" grooves vs. S & W's 0.357-0.358" - mostly in older "IDEAL"-marked Lyman moulds. Some combinations we have NEVER figured out (like the "A" in your 410459A)!

[dale2242]

Floodgate,
Thanks for your reply. I knew the U meant undersized, like I said. I suppose there are so many suffixes that it would be very tough to compile all of them.

[model375]

Hi
Could you Tell me if there is a reference to tell you what the Ideal and lyman numbers mean ?
there seem to be an endless amount of them.
thx
375

[floodgate]

model375:

If you are referring to the mould numbers (usually six digits, four or five for the older ones back in the pre-1900 Ideal era), the first three indicate the nominal "size-to" diameter (usually the moulds throw bullets 0.001" - 0.003" larger), and the following one, two or three (the "cherry number", by which Ideal's John Barlow maintained his inventory) are a more-or-less chronological sequence begun in 1896 or so and currently up into the -680s. But there are exceptions: (1) the xxx500's were apparently reserved in the 1950's for specialty and custom made moulds of which only about 25 were ever cataloged; (2) as old moulds were dropped, the cherry numbers were sometimes re-used - an early .30-30 short range #3089 was dropped after 1900 or so, and the same "cherry number" was assigned to the #3589 "hammerhead" (now lamentably also dropped); and (3) in the 1970's the numbers were expanded to six digits, to aid computer inventory control, by inserting extra zeros - the #311(00)8 for the Winchester .32-20 is the oldest surviving number in that sense. There are a very few cases where - by luck or by design - the "cherry number" corresponds to the nominal bullet weight in grains; e.g: #358156, #429215 and #429244 - for the lighter .44, an older bullet was re-assigned a different cherry number - the others were "vacant".

Smaller one, two or three digit numbers appearing on BOTH blocks are a "match number" to keep the block pairs together through production, finishing and packaging. Other numbers and letters identify the vendor who ground the cherries that cut the moulds, and which of his cherries; the machine and operator who cut them; and - occasionally - undersized or shortened versions (the former from worn, resharpened cherries, the latter for cherries inserted less deeply into the blocks to produce a shorter bullet); the weight in grains, where different ones were offered; and other variants we have not as yet completely sorted out.

A tabulation of bullets cataloged up through the end of Ideal / Marlin production in late 1915 is being prepared for posting on CASTPICS (www.castpics.net>), through #257388; other charts covering the Lyman era (1925 to date - Ideal operations were effectively suspended for ten years) are in preparation, and you can PM me for information if needed for a specific bullet. CASTPICS does display illustrations and data for the first 150 or so designs as of Ideal Handbook No. 9 (1897); and another display of designs (including most of the older ones) through the low #xxx500's, from the 1973 Second Edition Lyman "Cast Bullet Handbook", in which the then-owners of Lyman attempted to list all bullets available to that time from their mould and cherrry inventory.

Needless to say, it is a fascinating, and complex, story.

Doug Elliott

[dale2242]

More good info floodgate. Thanks. Keep it coming.

[JoeH]

Thanks for the info, I still don't really know what those letters mean but I have come to accept that I don't need to know! LOL