Automated Master Caster

[jmorris]

I have the best results at around 480'ish with 230g 45 bullets. With automation you don't need to set a record with casting because it allows you to do the other processes at the same time.

So I am fine if I can get close to 500 rounds cast, sized, coated and loaded an hour. It would be a lot longer if I had to be "hands on" every step of the way.

[Tazza]

I'm with Jmorris on the idea is to allow you to do other things while it's clunking away, if you want higher output, you need a commercial casting machine. I don't really care if it's not as fast as it could be, as long as it casts good projectiles with minimal intervention from me, i'd be happy.

As for pre-heating the ingots, i tend to sit them on the side of the pot to give them a little heat before dropping them in.

I'll mainly be casting 9mm 125gr conicals and .38 158gr swc, nothing too big.

[No_1]

Exactly. Even though it can run fast I do not run it at those speeds. The original thought behind automation was not speed of casting but instead being able to do more than one thing at a time without help. Hatch and a few others have taken it to a new level by automating their sizer which means they can to more than 2 things at one time without help.

[hagel]

You know, at this point I really have no idea if I can keep up with three automated MCs and an automated Starr. I guess the big numbers (1100/hr) just kind of blew me away. Once I get everything up and running I'll find out just how much I really can do in an hour. I'm the third type of machine in this shop and a lot of my parts are pretty worn down already.

Still it is good to know that if I can figure out how to hold up my end of production that the casters have plenty of spare capacity. Speaking of casters, my second one should show up in about a month. I get to set that one up in my shop when it gets here. I'm looking forward to it. My little 357 mag angle eject 94 trapper is laying on the kitchen table looking pretty hungry. Gonna be fun feeding her. Usually is.

On another front: have any of you tried Magma molds in an MC for making #4 or 00 buck? I tried looking for a thread about either of those on this site but I couldn't find them.

[jmorris]

You know, at this point I really have no idea if I can keep up with three automated MCs and an automated Starr

Sure you can, you just need to automate the rest of your equipment.

[hagel]

Sure you can, you just need to automate the rest of your equipment.

Well, the "rest of your equipment" is me. I'm only partially automated on the good days. Don't even want to think about the bad days.

Seriously, if I can manage to get this all up and running and the government doesn't outlaw lead or shooting or small business (they are getting pretty close to that last one already) I'm hoping to expand to the point that I can hire a few recent combat vets. All that "thanking them for their service" **** is nice and polite and all but a paycheck, even a small one, ain't a bad thing either. Besides, after 2, 3 or more hot tours most of those boys ain't gonna fit into nobody's cubicle. Hanging out here in the boonies and cranking out a little lead might work for them though. No dress code, no PC ******** and something to keep their minds busy (melted metal does tend to keep you focused when it's real close). I was two years too young for Nam but a lot of the people I knew who did go never really came back regardless of what their address was. If I could get to the point where I could help I sure would like to.

[RoGrrr]

The big thing with automated equipment is the raw material feed. We all have to supply/scrounge lead to feed our habit. At least it's not bad like drugs that debilitate US. Our product can debilitate some thugs but the thugs who legislate us out of business/existence need to be removed/outlawed.

[jmorris]

Well, the "rest of your equipment" is me. I'm only partially automated on the good days.

Sad to hear that, if I can help I try. I have automated annealers, prep and loading machines to keep up with my hobby. The old way, over the years that worked, had no need.

Now that you fill one of your needs, I bet money you will find others.

We are making nothing "new" just a more simple way of doing it, with what we have.

[hagel]

Latest update: The ME students are busy doing their force analysis of the MC so soon we will have a good idea of the forces needed to run it. That should allow them to then move on to ordering the cylinders, valves, PLC and such to automate this machine. Since I already have MC #2 on order I am going to place an order for all the same stuff for that machine. If their control approach doesn't work (although I honestly think it will work quite well) I will have what I need to set MC#2 up to run like Hatch's. I will probably order the Star luber/sizer soon so I can get started on it as well. In the meantime I have to find time to nail down the stack of luan on the second floor of the garage and lay tile. After that I need to do the sprinklers, security system upgrades and the additional amperage.

My god, what have I gotten myself into. Oh, and yesterday I bought an old Snipe sailboat. Just wanted to have a little restoration project to fill in the spare seconds with. Don't suppose any of you have a spare boom and set of sails for a Snipe laying around?

I will be getting a mold for 00 buck with machine #2. Sure hope it produces useable shot.

[Tazza]

Good to hear they are making progress.

I had a tinker with the bits i have on hand on Saturday too. I machined the clevis and the end of the cylinder rod. I drilled a hole in the MC where the clevis on the air cylinder mounts. I just now need to work out how to machine the holder for the cylinder, i'll work on it during the week if time allows.

I made up a fitting to connect the air solenoid to the cylinder, all these parts are working, now to mount them up!

[hagel]

Good to hear you're getting on with it. Can't wait for machine #2 and all the bits to arrive. Looking forward to having a go at it. I think I might try your solenoid trick for the lead dripper. I just have to believe it would be more energy efficient than air and the PLC shouldn't care if it is signalling a solenoid rather than an air valve.

[HATCH]

It will not care if its electric or air.
Cool thing if its electric is that you can manually operate the mc with no air answer automated lead pour

[hagel]

Good point. I hadn't even thought of that but you are right. Damn, nothing gets past you.

It will not care if its electric or air.
Cool thing if its electric is that you can manually operate the mc with no air answer automated lead pour

[Tazza]

I think the energy saving will be minimal, if at all with using electric over pneumatic. The big energy consumer will be the melting pot. The main reason i'm going to try using an electric solenoid is that i have about 5 of them on hand, the same reason i'm using a larger air cylinder.

The mounting of the cylinder is currently the only issue I have run into. It's hard to explain the design, but essnetially looks like:
=O=
The O is a tube the cylinder will slide into and be held in place with set screws, the = is the part that will be drilled and tapped to mount it to the frame and allow it to pivot as the ram moves in and out. The issue is getting the mount and pivot point at 90 degrees to each other so when the ram moves, everything is still aligned and will not bind at any pivot point.

I guess time will tell if it will work or if i will need to alter my design to fit.

[hagel]

If you don't have a mill but do have a drill press, welder and taps you could try the following: purchase a short piece of tubing that the cylinder will fit snugly into. Drill that one for the set screws. take another piece of tubing and use a hole saw the size of the OD of the tubing the cylinder fits into. Carefully position the larger piece of tubing in the vice on the press and drill a hole through both sides of it. now take a piece of all thread, a couple of washers and a couple of nuts and secure one piece of the smaller tubing on either side of the larger one. Now you can weld the small pieces of tubing to the OD of the larger one and they will be aligned well enough for your purposes. Trim the outer ends of the small tubing so that they fit inside the base frame of the MC leaving enough space for a brass washer to fit between the small tubes and the MC frame. Use brass shoulder bolts to secure the cylinder mounting bracket you just made to the base of the MC. You now have replaceable wear bits acting as your pivot points. You can get the washers and bolts from a nautical supply house (you have a few of those where you live).

Or you can find someone with a mill and buy them a six pack. Either method should work.

I think the energy saving will be minimal, if at all with using electric over pneumatic. The big energy consumer will be the melting pot. The main reason i'm going to try using an electric solenoid is that i have about 5 of them on hand, the same reason i'm using a larger air cylinder.

The mounting of the cylinder is currently the only issue I have run into. It's hard to explain the design, but essnetially looks like:
=O=
The O is a tube the cylinder will slide into and be held in place with set screws, the = is the part that will be drilled and tapped to mount it to the frame and allow it to pivot as the ram moves in and out. The issue is getting the mount and pivot point at 90 degrees to each other so when the ram moves, everything is still aligned and will not bind at any pivot point.

I guess time will tell if it will work or if i will need to alter my design to fit.

[Tazza]

That is actually very close to one way i was considering lining up the pivot points. My other way was to cross drill the tube the cylinder was to fit into and use a full length piece of rod, weld it in place and machine the internal part with the bar stock running through it with the mill or lathe. In theory, the bar stock would help prevent it moving too much when welding.

I'm going to go have a hunt around to see what materials i have on hand tonight.

I like the idea of brass wear points too. Better to have them wear out than needing to sleeve the pivot points later after they wear.

[hagel]

Didn't know you had a mill. That does simplify things. Brass is good that way and using standardized parts keeps things cheaper and simpler.

[No_1]

The mounting of the cylinder is currently the only issue I have run into. It's hard to explain the design, but essnetially looks like:
=O=
The O is a tube the cylinder will slide into and be held in place with set screws, the = is the part that will be drilled and tapped to mount it to the frame and allow it to pivot as the ram moves in and out. The issue is getting the mount and pivot point at 90 degrees to each other so when the ram moves, everything is still aligned and will not bind at any pivot point.

I guess time will tell if it will work or if i will need to alter my design to fit.

That is pretty much how I mounted my cylinder.



The pivot brackets are aluminum and the bushings are Teflon. You can see the articulation of the cylinder when the machine is running by clicking on the picture below.

[Tazza]

That's close to how mine will work, the cylinder that i have doesn't have the pivot points welded to it, but essentially the same look.

I got a few hours to work on it last night, the pivot points are welded on and threaded. I'm just machining out the large hole to fit the cylinder. I had to use a piece 2.5" bar stock which is naturally taking a little more time to machine out, i hoped some water pipe would be the rite ID, but i didn't have any that would leave me with enough material after boring the centre out to 45mm. Hopefully i'll get the machining finished tonight, then to work out what i'm going to use for set screws that will not distort the cylinder walls.

[hagel]

Just wanted to get the word out to anyone living in the north west US. Government Liquidation has a bunch of lead up for auction at Ft Lewis, 52,000 pounds. Living in Ohio this doesn't do me any good but if a bunch of you guys who live in that neck of the woods want to get together this could be a good deal for you. Here's the link: http://www.govliquidation.com/auctio..._source=Eloqua

Description:
52,000 lbs Approx. Lead scrap, to include but not limited to Bagged Brick/sheet and chips & shavings. Located at Ft. Lewis, WA. consisting of lead ballast weight. approximate dimensions 14 long x 3.125 wide, 50-60 pounds each, most bricks are not full size. Including but not limited to sheets, chips, shavings, and smaller pieces of various sizes and shapes. Lead will be packed into flexible intermediate bulk containers (fibc) placed on wooden pallets, which are included in the total weight of sale. fibc containers are polypropylene bags rated at 6,000 lbs. capacity, could also include Lead brick, lead shot or poured lead. Lead is to be transported, handled and disposed of in accordance with all local, state, and federal regulations. GL will load flat bed truck and trailer only. Contractor will provide transportation within 48 hours of notification. Poc. for sale is John Miller. (253)966-1430. Mutilation not required.

If any of you guys know someone living in that area please pass this on.