Automated Master Caster

[hagel]

Sort of a big day today. First the milling machine I ordered Christmas day that was supposed to be delivered in 1-3 months showed up. Fortunately the guy was driving a day cab pulling a pup with a lift gate. We were able to back my truck up to his with the tail gate down and then lower the lift gate with the mill on it down to just touching my tail gate. The two of us then bulled it into my truck. Now my little Ranger is sitting in the garage with a fully assembled, 750 lb milling machine in the back of it. There's no way I can get it out of there without taking a lot of weight off it, especially up high. After that I have a small ramp and a pneumatic tired dolly. If I can get the chunks down to about 400 lbs then the wife and I should be able to manage it. As far as re-assembly goes....well I always wanted an excuse to get a shop crane.

So, have any of you guys ever had to disassemble one of Harbor Freight's $1200 milling machines into human manageable chunks without screwing it up? Sure hope so. Right now I can figure out how to un-wire the motor and pull it off but that won't do much.

The second thing that happened today is that my FFL showed up. I sure didn't expect that to happen so fast. Seriously, the whole deal was a real breeze. After all the **** I'd heard about how long it took to get your license I figured it would take at least 2-4 more months. By then I should have enough electricity in my shop and working casting machines. Kinda cool to have it though. Sure glad I spent yesterday taking down some of the trees I had to remove before getting my new power drop in. Just one more tree to go and then I can get the electrician in so we can figure out just how we're going to pull off the prep for AEP to do their thing.

[HATCH]

You don't have a driveway going up to your shop??

Ask the tech kids if they have factored in when this happens

[hagel]

Sure do. Steep uphill concrete off a skinny blacktop road. Not enough room to get an articulated truck in. If you're real good you can get a 24 ft straight truck in but you have to set up just right or you'll take out the mail box.

You see, we got two kinds of real estate around here. The flat stuff is all down in the flood plain and everything else is kinda hanging off the side of a hill.

That's not a hollow point is it? It doesn't look like one. So:
A. How'd you do that?
B. Do you do that often?

Seriously, thanks for the pic. I'll definitely pass it on along with your thoughts on a box for the controls. The ME gang should be showing up Monday. It might be a couple of days before I hear from them though. We're having some unusually winter like weather here for the next few days.

[HATCH]

I am guessing that machine is on a pallet. I would o used a pallet jack and a rope. Towed it up the hill with the pickup

That issue happens only every once and a while

[hagel]

Nope, it was on a pallet when it was in the semi. We had to take the mill and the box that the Chinese built up around it off the pallet because a pallet won't fit between the wheel wells on a Ranger. Now all that is left is the bottom of the wooden box and the mill is bolted to that.

I am guessing that machine is on a pallet. I would o used a pallet jack and a rope. Towed it up the hill with the pickup

That issue happens only every once and a while

[Tazza]

You need to drive out from underneath it really fast

Is there anywhere you can back the pickup to so you can use a chain block or something like that to lift it up, drive out and lower it?

I highly doubt you will easily be able to remove enough parts to get the weight down enough for you and your wife to get it down. With heavy stuff like that, you generally get to a point where you can lift it, but lower you simply can't hold it and it will fall, possibly causing injuries.

Would STRONG planks on the back allow you to slide it down? Make sure you chock the wheels or at least have someone in there with their foot on the brake to prevent it sliding. My dad watched as his truck skated down a hill when using a crane that took the weight off one of the rear wheels and it started sliding.

[RoGrrr]

hagel
at least you got it in the garage, considering all the snow. Shame you're far or I'd bring my engine crane down and pick it off for you. I move lots of REAL heavy stuff with it.
Do you have a cross beam/joist in the ceiling you can screw an eye into and lift it with a come-along, back the truck out from under it and them lower it to the floor ? BTW, the screw-eye has to be exactly in the center of the beam and long enough to go all the way thru it. I would also consider cutting a couple 2x4s that fit REAL tightly from floor to ceiling, putting them on either side of the truck to act as pillars to support that joist from sagging....

[hagel]

You need to drive out from underneath it really fast

Is there anywhere you can back the pickup to so you can use a chain block or something like that to lift it up, drive out and lower it?

I highly doubt you will easily be able to remove enough parts to get the weight down enough for you and your wife to get it down. With heavy stuff like that, you generally get to a point where you can lift it, but lower you simply can't hold it and it will fall, possibly causing injuries.

Would STRONG planks on the back allow you to slide it down? Make sure you chock the wheels or at least have someone in there with their foot on the brake to prevent it sliding. My dad watched as his truck skated down a hill when using a crane that took the weight off one of the rear wheels and it started sliding.

I have a short aluminum ramp and one of those cheap motorcycle lifters. I thought about doing some sort of combination of that stuff but if I can find an engine lifter/shop crane Saturday I may just do that. That was how I had been thinking of doing it when I thought I had a month or three before the mill showed up.

By the way, we're just a couple degree centigrade up here right now and early next week we are looking at a few below. Bet it's a little warmer where you are.

[Tazza]

Please send your cool weather my way, today apparent;y was 36c, tomorrow they are predicting 41c..... Not much looking forward to that.

I'm still in the process of renovations, the heat really isn't helping with it at all. Hopefully i'll get some time to myself soon to play with my MC though! I got my paws on some small cylinders that i'm considering using as mold tappers, but it's all just thoughts at this stage, air or electric..... That is the question

[HATCH]

Well here in South Carolina this morning it was a nice warm -4 C on the drive into work.
Good luck on getting it off your truck.

[hagel]

RoGrr tracked down a lift I can rent here in Athens for tomorrow. Still haven't figured out how to get it over here with the mill in the back of my tiny little truck. I will work out something though.

Sorry to here about the heat down there Tazza. I was stuck in Phoenix once when it hit 125 F during the day. It only "cooled" down to 98 F at night. The wind coming down off the mountains to the north made it feel like standing in front of a commercial pizza oven. Wasn't much fun.

[Djones]

Ask the tech kids if they have factored in when this happens

I've never been around a master caster but I think something similar to one of these in your control circuit would help detect stuck boolits.

http://www.cognex.com/industrial-sen...?langtype=1033

With my 10 pound lee pot and my one cavity Lyman mold I can't justify a vision system at home. With what you guys are looking to do a vision system could save a mold and possibly speed up your production rates. You wouldn't need to tap the mold every time, only when a stuck boolit is present.

[hagel]

The ME students started out wanting to use a system like this. Then they looked at the price. They never really discussed the price with me other than to say that it was cost prohibitive.

Myself now I imagine that these systems are sort of like anything else electronic in that they will either fall in price over time or the manufacturer will continue to add bells and whistles in order to keep the price up. Right now I am just trying to get a working system together as cheaply as possible. If I can do that and I actually start seeing money coming in instead of going out then I will definitely look at devices and techniques that will enhance reliability, product quality and production. Right now, all that is a long way off. To be honest with you right now I am just hoping to get to the point where I can begin to consider systems like the one you mentioned.

Tell me, do you have any experience with these visual sensing devices?

I've never been around a master caster but I think something similar to one of these in your control circuit would help detect stuck boolits.

http://www.cognex.com/industrial-sen...?langtype=1033

With my 10 pound lee pot and my one cavity Lyman mold I can't justify a vision system at home. With what you guys are looking to do a vision system could save a mold and possibly speed up your production rates. You wouldn't need to tap the mold every time, only when a stuck boolit is present.

[hagel]

Just got back from a meeting with the ME students. They have all their parts in and starting to put things together. Hope to see MC #1 singing and dancing soon.

Still haven't heard anything from Magma on MC #2. Last time I talked to Eric he said they were running 6 weeks behind because they couldn't get heating elements. I think I'll go ahead and order the Starr and associated toys. Any of you guys using the collator with your Starr? If so, how's that working out for you?

[Tazza]

Sadly i still have no news on my MC......

I made a new adapter to replace the handle that goes in the shaft, i have yet to weld the required parts to it though.

I also clamped some aluminium to the side of the MC and used a pair of vice grips to hold an electric solenoid to control the lead pour. I tried using a spring between the arm and solenoid to allow it to fully close the solenoid, but it was really noisy. I took the spring off and used a piece of aluminium to link between the arm and solenoid moving it to the required height made sure it fully bottomed out when power was applied, fairly quiet too.

Now that i have proof of concept, i can now find the time to make a proper mount for the solenoid to make a little more progress.

I have picture, but they really don't show much progress

Looking forward to see what the MS students come up with

[hagel]

Sadly i still have no news on my MC......

I made a new adapter to replace the handle that goes in the shaft, i have yet to weld the required parts to it though.

I also clamped some aluminium to the side of the MC and used a pair of vice grips to hold an electric solenoid to control the lead pour. I tried using a spring between the arm and solenoid to allow it to fully close the solenoid, but it was really noisy. I took the spring off and used a piece of aluminium to link between the arm and solenoid moving it to the required height made sure it fully bottomed out when power was applied, fairly quiet too.

Now that i have proof of concept, i can now find the time to make a proper mount for the solenoid to make a little more progress.

I have picture, but they really don't show much progress

Looking forward to see what the MS students come up with

You can only imagine how anxious I am to see what they come up with. I hear you on the slow progress on projects. They just revised the long range forecast and it looks like we're in for more arctic weather. Sure wish I could send you part of that. From the looks of the weather map I'm sure Hatch would second that. I know you could use a little relief from the heat down there.

Anyhow, really looking forward to seeing the final product on your lead pour solenoid.

[Tazza]

I'd love some cooler weather.

The poor people down south have been hit worse that i have, they are getting 45C days and it's not cooling off much during the nights either. We have had low 30c for the last week or two, seems to be pretty steady.

I hope everyone effected with your crazy weather stays safe, it sure does look dangerous.

[hagel]

Met with the ME students last Wednesday. They have all the hard parts and are starting to put things together. I loaned them a small compressor to power it with. And that's about all that has happened lately. We are having a severe winter this year. Deadly in some cases. Everyone around here and much of the eastern half of the US is just trying to survive. The 10 day forecast doesn't offer much hope either. Tried to buy some more propane yesterday. Didn't work. Apparently they are only selling it to people who are down to 30% in their tanks and then they are limiting what they will deliver.

Sure hope everyone makes it through this.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

I hate to throw water on the fire.
CASTING bullets in large masses and commercially is not the problem you need to fix,
Don't re-invent the wheel, some one needs to come up with a better sizer lumber.

when we cast in Tucson and Moses Lake, commercially we had 4-5 automated bullet masters, going but,
BIG BUT> those sizer lubers where always screwed up.
Air bubble in the lube ( started with Magma's- then made our own, then, RED ROOSTER lab when they still made blue) Most issues wen t away then, But That stupid collator Sucks, clutches are weak, you have to send them back to factory to have fixed, wait for 3 to 4 months, while no bullets being sold most of that time, waiting for parts, that are always just 4-6 weeks, more like 3-6 months.......

Bullet Casting machines have been made, copied, recopied, automated blah, if you can't lube and size why cast??
We closed the casting down for public consumption, after getting 4 lubers to have one or two running, 44 different sets of molds, two alloy types, and still people don't want to pay you for your time, or investment. They want cheap bullets though.

Even the little magma master cast. is not an original concept, I've seen the old one they patterned theirs after!!.

that said good luck

[hagel]

OK now, this is news to me. I was just about to order a Starr luber sizer with all the attachments including the collator. I just got an email from Eric at Magma telling me that MC #2 should ship in two weeks and I was going to add all that to the order. Are you telling me that the collator isn't worth having? This is real important to me. I'd sure like to hear from anyone who has one of the collators for the Starr. My thinking was that I could set up the MCs to throw 500 bullets and then stop casting until I changed out the tray the bullets were being dumped into. I would then dump the tray with 500 bullets into the collator and let it load the Starr while I was doing other things.

Are you saying this isn't going to work? I sure hope you're wrong. I'm going to be running a one man show here. I don't think there will be time for me to load tubes for the Starr by hand and get any kind of production volume.

I hate to throw water on the fire.
CASTING bullets in large masses and commercially is not the problem you need to fix,
Don't re-invent the wheel, some one needs to come up with a better sizer lumber.

when we cast in Tucson and Moses Lake, commercially we had 4-5 automated bullet masters, going but,
BIG BUT> those sizer lubers where always screwed up.
Air bubble in the lube ( started with Magma's- then made our own, then, RED ROOSTER lab when they still made blue) Most issues wen t away then, But That stupid collator Sucks, clutches are weak, you have to send them back to factory to have fixed, wait for 3 to 4 months, while no bullets being sold most of that time, waiting for parts, that are always just 4-6 weeks, more like 3-6 months.......

Bullet Casting machines have been made, copied, recopied, automated blah, if you can't lube and size why cast??
We closed the casting down for public consumption, after getting 4 lubers to have one or two running, 44 different sets of molds, two alloy types, and still people don't want to pay you for your time, or investment. They want cheap bullets though.

Even the little magma master cast. is not an original concept, I've seen the old one they patterned theirs after!!.

that said good luck