Automated Master Caster

[hagel]

Fired up machine #1 (Larry) yesterday to try out my 00 mold. The mold had just started throwing fairly good shot, although I really don't like the sprue it leaves on the shot, when the sprue cam actuating rod broke off from the guide rail. I will take the guide rod assembly off Moe and put it on Larry until I have a chance to grind the stub off the broken unit and weld on a new rod. Maybe this is someone trying to tell me to get cracking on the Skew ball mill machine.

Anybody else had any problems with their sprue rod cam actuating rod snapping off? If so, did you replace it with a larger diameter rod or reinforce it in some way?

[HATCH]

I had mine become loose but I just tighten up the bolt and all is well.
I would say you got a bad weld

[hagel]

It sheared off along the grain structure right at the weld. Looks like they got it a little too hot. For now I'll pull the rail off MC#3 and stick it in there. That will buy me time to carefully examine the failed part and repair it. I doubt this is a common occurrence.

By the way, I have all the parts to semi-automate the Star and I'll get on that ASAP. I also have all the parts for a PID pot temp control in my wish list on Amazon. As soon as I have the Star redone I'll get on that. You are right in that pot temp is the controlling factor on good fill out with this alloy. It doesn't hurt to stir frequently either or at least that seems to help. Could just be superstition though. How often do you stir?

Also working on the design of MC#3 drawing on what I have learned so far. I think you'll like it and that it will be a little more reliable than either of the other machines. There's a lot to do before I get to that project though.

[Tazza]

Mine had a crack when i got it, it was well used and worn though. The pin is hardened, so it is a little brittle.

I guess the more set the sprue is, the harder it will be on this pin during the shearing operation.

[hagel]

I am going to take a hard look at that pin when I do the repair. I have come to realize that I need to look at these machines a little differently than most folks do. Whereas the average caster might think of throwing down a thousand to fifteen hundred bullets once or twice a month I need to improve the reliability of my machines to the point that I can run 2-4 thousand bullets a day through each of them.

Anyhow, the next step is to semi-automate the Star (I have all the parts I think I need to do the job) and then do a PID controller for one of my pots to check that out. Just a question for those of you who have done the PID temp controller: did you see a significant improvement in the production of bullets as a consequence of better temp control?

[Tazza]

The reason i went for a PID was the fact my thermostat rusted up and was pretty well useless. I didn't bother trying to free it up, it may have got it fixed but a PID sounded better.

When i had a thermostat alone, i did find that the pot did freeze more often than it does now. I could add one or two ingots and if it was the wrong time, the spout would freeze up till it got back to temperature. With the PID, if i wish to add more lead, mainly when i let it get down too far and need to add a lot, i look at the display and see if the temperature is just rising from the bottom limit, so i know it is heating. I add lead at this stage so i have a better chance of it not freezing than if it just cycled off and there is no heat being put into the pot. This may not be an issue for most, but i run my pot temperature pretty low, i found that it casts just fine for me just above it's melting point (about 320/330c).

It does seem to take time for the heat to soak into the base of the pot, so from the time the pid turns off, the temperature does climb a little, it would vary about 10 degrees c between on and off. It's not perfect, but for me, that is just fine. I have not noticed any changes in how the projectiles come out, and they land exactly where i point them.

[HATCH]

If you purchase a quality pid then it will maintain the temp within a close range.
This will insure more constant high quality boolit will be produced.

The Wyman-Hatch setup has precise timing. If the temp of the lead is varied then the output quality and function of the machine will also vary.

[jmorris]

It does seem to take time for the heat to soak into the base of the pot, so from the time the pid turns off, the temperature does climb a little, it would vary about 10 degrees c between on and off. It's not perfect, but for me, that is just fine. I have not noticed any changes in how the projectiles come out, and they land exactly where i point them.

The first PID I had didn't have an auto tune function. I was also using it to control temp on a wood burning smoker.

I learned a LOT about how adjusting the "P, I and D" settings and how they interact with one another. Once the fire was down to coals, with no wind, I could hold temp in a 24x36" smoker within .4 degrees F.

[Tazza]

Interesting... it seems I should try the auto tune mode and see how it reacts. I thought they just turned on and off at set points and not learn.

[jmorris]

I have 3 or 4 brands that do "learn". If you just use them as a on/off thermostat they are nothing more than a normal temp switch with a readout.

I have pages of notes I took over a number of days (who knows how many beers) playing with my first one. Too many things to address in a single post for sure.

Figure out what hysteresis value you are looking for and set it first then auto tune it, saves a lot of time.

I like to record the numbers they come up with and "AT" more than once at different "loads" just to learn what they are doing. They never tune the same burning wood due to environmental/wood differences.

[jmorris]

To give you an analogy think of a thermostat (on/off) as following a car with another by always having your foot on the gas or brake. A PID will allow you to program a "coast" or backing off of the throttle and easing into it, not just "go/stop".

If the temp is close but low, it might only apply power for a few seconds or less to an element, to raise temp. However, if you drop a new ingot into the pot and drastically reduce the temp it will stay on until it gets close then start "clipping" power as it approaches the set point.

Another analogy would be that they work more analog than digital.

[Tazza]

I always thought of them as just a thermostat. I remember reading about the auto tune mode, i just never understood it.

Controlling like this, i may need to use an SSR instead of the relay it currently has if it's going to be switching on and off more often. An issue to deal with if it becomes a problem.

Project for the weekend, play with auto-tune

[jmorris]

Since your pot will spend most of the time already at temp and just maintaining it. I would suggest heating the pot up before starting the AT function.

[hagel]

OK, as usual you guys just blow me away with all the hard earned knowledge you have.

I'm sitting here right now looking at the picture/diagram I got off the PID/temp control thread I found here on the Forum. I could probably dig that reference back up if any of you need it so just let me know. The basic system this drawing lays out has five main components:

15 A barrel fuze
switch
PID
SSR (solid state relay
terminal strip

There are indicator lamps in series with the fuze and the switch. I really don't know squat about PIDS. The one I was planning on using is an: AGPtek PID Temperature Controller TA4-SNRWith 1 alarm

I found it on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BVWYHVO/...8YFVSD0H&psc=1

Do you guys think this one would do the job?

[hagel]

I ran MC#1 yesterday with the repaired rail. I replaced the broken hardened sprue plate cam pin. I replaced the broken pin with a 3/8 inch hot rolled rod. I only ran about 5-700 bullets through it but it didn't break. I did a really crappy job of welding it on. I used my old welding helmet and the shield is too dark to really work with my little mig welder. It still held up though. Hopefully I'm on to something here.

It could be that the reason it worked is that I added another cam pin mounted behind the mold as it sits at the top of the stroke. this rod is positioned so that it hits the projection of the cam plate on the other side of the mold. This insures that the sprue plate cannot be positioned so that the other end of it cannot hit the pin that shears the sprues at the bottom of the stroke dead on. THe machine seems to run more reliably this way and it may be the reason why my replacement pin didn't shear off.

Only time will tell.

[hagel]

Still kicking guys. Struggling to get the business running. Kind of hard to sell bullets when no one can get any powder to load with.

I have two machines running pretty reliably now. The one the students put together isn't. That return spring is the problem. I have a cylinder I am going to replace it with. Unfortunately, due to the powder famine I could make more bullets than I can sell with a 2 cavity hand mold so no point in bringing the third machine on line right now.

[Tazza]

I never thought you would have a powder issue too. Over here federal primers are almost non-existent, the grape vine says there is 10 million on back order. Winchester powder, forget it. ADI that is made locally is also not available, apparently it's all or almost all being exported.....

Glad your machines are still running strong, shame the first one isn't playing nice, hopefully you can get it sorted out easily though.

I have sold a few projectiles to mates at my local range, it helps pay for a little powder when it's available.

[hagel]

I never thought you would have a powder issue too. Over here federal primers are almost non-existent, the grape vine says there is 10 million on back order. Winchester powder, forget it. ADI that is made locally is also not available, apparently it's all or almost all being exported.....

Glad your machines are still running strong, shame the first one isn't playing nice, hopefully you can get it sorted out easily though.

I have sold a few projectiles to mates at my local range, it helps pay for a little powder when it's available.

The two that I built are doing OK. The next mod on them will be airflow diverters for the mold cooling fans to keep the mold temps consistent wheather I'm throwing 115 gr 9s or 250 gr 45s. Originally I was heading down the road of a touchless temperature sensing device that controlled the fan through a solenoid. Then I pulled my head out and realized that it would be a lot easier to build fan diverters for them. I am doing two different designs so I can see which one stands up to the machines banging away the best.

The student machine will be an easy fix. I simply need to replace the return spring with the cylinder I have and the single valve that currently controls the mold arm air cylinder with the same type of valve I use on the other two machines to run their two way air cylinders. The software that runs them will work on it too.

Good to hear yours is working too.

So, what you are telling me is that the powder famine is not just an American thing. Pretty strange that the laws of supply and demand don't seem to be working in this case. BHSS (I think they're the largest reloading supplier in the US) tells me they are anywhere from 3-12 months backordered on most of their powders. I don't really subscribe to all the conspiracy theories that are flying around the web but it is also hard to believe that manufacturers of what is a comparatively simple chemical compound can't ramp up production to meet demand.

In any case, I don't really care what the reason is, I just want to see the powder supply situation get back to normal. Things are slowly getting better. I was able to get my hands on 10 lbs of IMR4895 last week. I don't really need that much and would share the wealth but the $28.50 HAZMAT fee for shipping makes that a local pick up only proposition. Besides, I'd probably end up in Guantanamo if I tried to send you a pound of it. You know us law abiding, lead slinging back yard paper punchers are such a threat to national security. Never mind that there are more injuries on golf courses than gun ranges.

[Tazza]

I'm with you, i hear all different stories ranging from the government restriction access to powder and primers to try and push us out of the sport to Obama's desire to take your guns so people are buying a lot more ammo than they normally would and stock piling it.

Whatever the reason, i can't see why there isn't a surplus like there always was, they should have had stock of everything over prior years, but it seems like they are all gone.

Yeah, best not try and post that, i'd rather not get the boys in blue showing up with hand cuffs just for me

[wlkjr]

I've read all 619 posts and nothing for almost 2 years. Wondering if you ever got all your machines set up and making money. I'm really interested in modifying my MC like Wyman did in the manual mode. Have sent him an email but no response yet.