Automated Master Caster

[hagel]

New to the list folks and new to the idea of casting commercial volumes of bullets. Previously I've only cast stuff in simple molds by hand. So anyhow I've hooked up with the Mechanical Engineering Dept at the local University and they have agreed to help me out a little bit. What I plan on doing is to buy and automate 3 Master Casters and at least one Starr sizer. I'm also planning on either automating or buying an automated gas check machine. Being new I don't know if all my questions have already been answered here on the forum or not. If so, I'd appreciate it if one of you would let me know before I waste a bunch of your time. If not, then here are a few of the questions:

1. Automating a Master Caster -I was planning on using a single acting, spring return, magnetically dampened pneumatic cylinder controlled by a small computer. Anybody done this already?
2. Does anyone know of either a well worked out, reliable automated gas check punch or has anyone made their own?
3. Have any of you automated a Star luber?

[HATCH]

you need to do some more reading....
There is a star equipment section.

(1) Yep - someone designed a pneumatic manual control setup. I automated it using a plc. To my knowledge there is about 10 units out there running fully automated using the program me and my brother wrote for the PLC
(2) not to my knowledge
(3) Yep - someone designed a pneumatic manual control setup, I automated it using a two smart relays.

The Master caster can do about 720 boolits a hr while the star (provided you feed the tubes) will do about 1200 boolits a hr.

Look for threads that I have started..

[hagel]

I'll bet that's your setup I saw on Youtube. Sure does sound like it. That was the one that inspired me to take a shot at setting up a business. I figure with three of them running I should be able to roll out about 1800 bullets an hour for at least 32 hrs a week. If so, I won't get rich but I just might be able to keep the Government in business and manage to eat every now and then.

I'm going to go look at your threads now.

[Moonman]

Get your FFL's lined up, Federal Taxes, Excise Taxes will be due on output,

Local business license Vendors permit and Sales Taxes.

You're about to meet the American Business Bureaucracy, record keeping,

many business taxing authorities, Zoning regulators etc.

You're near Ohio University, is that the one you're working with,

DO THEY KNOW THAT LEAD IS THE RAW MATERIAL AND BULLETS ARE THE FINAL PRODUCT?

Crazy Politics at that university at times.

Good Luck.
.

[hagel]

Wading through the paperwork now. Yep, it's pretty daunting and they all want money. I did get lucky on the URL though. I am now the owner of Beanhollowbullets.com. Don't bother looking for it yet as I haven't put anything up on the web. In fact I may never. I really hope to do as much business by word of mouth as possible. I'd like to keep things as local as possible.

OU dept of Mechanical engineering. Everyone I've met there has been real nice and about as sane as you can expect at a university. They do know what I'm up to. They aren't totally happy about it though. They would prefer that I started producing a kit to automate Master Casters instead of bullets. They seem to think that there might be some sort of economic development funds available for that. I don't know. If I could produce a kit to automate Master Casters do you think anyone would be interested? My plan is to give one of the machines I'm getting to OU and let them tinker with automating it while I try to follow what Hatch (see above) has done to his. He hasn't answered me back yet but I think that was his machine I saw on YouTube that got me to thinking that I just might be able to cobble together the equipment to start a small scale bullet casting business.

[King6]

You said OU.. Are you in Oklahoma? Reason I ask is that I'm in OK, and the automated master caster is something I'm looking into as well.

[gunoil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXbLxgJnBnI

IMO, motor is better than air.

If your casting you need to offer coated and regular lube boolits.

Look a bayoubullets.net

[hagel]

OU is Ohio University in my case. I live just outside of Athens Ohio. Fortunately just far enough that there isn't any code enforcement here other than the County Health Department's septic tank regulations. Of course I also face the same EPA hazardous waste rules that make using wheel weights in commercial bullet casting an impractical consideration.

As to weather using pneumatic cylinders or motors is the best route to go I really don't know. I'm going to present both possibilities to the team of engineering students that will be working on my project. I am biased towards air myself because it has such a long and proven record in industrial automation. The machines Hatch has set up used pneumatics and they are pretty impressive performers. That said, the use of micro computers to control the equipment (probably arduinos or raspberry pies) might make motors a practical option. It's the control system I'm really interested in. It is my hope that using computers will make setup on die changes much easier and help to improve the consistency of the product. At this point though all I have to go on is what I've seen in a few Youtube videos. It will be interesting to see what actually does work in my shop.

[HATCH]

this is my MC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sTJ1mtmqQg

This is a vid of the limit switch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy2GRIWzdiE

This is the latest program which has the provision to do double taps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoTd8uF57so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-opimEGO_4

There are several ones up there that were done by members on here.
Wyman is the one that needs to take most of the credit for the automation of the master caster as without it I couldn't of done my part.

[HATCH]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXbLxgJnBnI

IMO, motor is better than air.

I think Mihec's setup (yeah the guy the makes the mold) as shown in the video is a better method as IMHO its easier on the equipment. It does however require machining of custom made parts vs the pneumatic setup.

The pneumatic setup requires more air then a cheap pancake compressor can produce.
I can run my master caster on a pancake without any issues but it does run one minute every 6 mins.
I purchased a large air compressor and it runs once a day if I am running the MC

[jmorris]

I built this one around 10 years ago. It just uses two timer circuts, one for pour the other for cool down (if needed).

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...=Master+caster

[hagel]

Hatch, thanks for the links. Truth is that I had already found most of them. Watching all this stuff on youtube is what got me starting to think maybe I could/should do this. Well, that and the fact that I think we all need to start looking out for each other and taking control of the things that are important to us back from the corporations that own the so called "government" and squeeze us harder every day.

Sorry about the preachin there but each and every one of you know what I'm talking about.

Anyhow, thanks for all the help and I just hope that someday I can return the favor.
There are several ones up there that were done by members on here.
Wyman is the one that needs to take most of the credit for the automation of the master caster as without it I couldn't of done my part.

this is my MC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sTJ1mtmqQg

This is a vid of the limit switch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy2GRIWzdiE

This is the latest program which has the provision to do double taps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoTd8uF57so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-opimEGO_4

[HATCH]

Most of the ones done by members here are done just like mine.
We followed the same road map.

What's funny is wyman is running the original program , like version 2.0. He doesn't own a program cable and i built his controller.

I need to work on the timing some more. i have added flow regulators and they slow down the stroke so it doesn't beat the machine up but it also slows production.
I guess i am at 600 boolits per hr instead of 720.

[hagel]

Most of the ones done by members here are done just like mine.
We followed the same road map.

What's funny is wyman is running the original program , like version 2.0. He doesn't own a program cable and i built his controller.

I need to work on the timing some more. i have added flow regulators and they slow down the stroke so it doesn't beat the machine up but it also slows production.
I guess i am at 600 boolits per hr instead of 720.

I wondered about that. I watched one of yours on Youtube about twenty times and It seemed to me that it was running a 12 second cycle time. I'm not saying that's bad. It got me all excited! I figgure if I can get three of them and a gas check punch to run that fast for at least 6 hrs a day I just might be able to afford a few beans. Hell, I might even be able to afford to smell a piece of bacon every now and then at that rate.

[RoGrrr]

New to the list folks and new to the idea of casting commercial volumes of bullets.<SNIP>

Hagel
Have you checked into Dept of STATE for your ITAR registration ($2150 per year, I believe). Don't get burned unnecessarily.

Look at the Bullet Master. They turn out 2200 boolits per hour.

Curious where you're going to get your lead.

[hagel]

Take a look at my first thread here on CB :New and Clueless

I started that one off by admitting that I didn't really know my *** from a hole in the ground when it comes to casting bullets on a commercial basis. Yea, I have read a lot of stuff and melted a little lead off and on over the years but that doesn't qualify me to try and fool anyone into thinking that I know how to run a cast bullet business. The response I got from the folks on this list is amazing. Sure there are a handful of "Gloom & Doomers" - you can't go anywhere without running into a few of those - but for the most part everyone who has responded to my asking for help and advice have been honest, straight forward and damn helpful. I really haven't run into a better group of folks any where else on the web. Several people chimed in on that thread with good advice on where to get lead.

Just take a look at that thread. I have learned a lot from good people who have obviously "been there and done that". I'm sure you will too.

[RoGrrr]

Hagel
I don't want to be one more G&D'er. I just don't want you to get in trouble with the govt.
I was approached about casting for a range manager when he learned that I have a Bullet Master. He was willing to supply lead to me. I have to say that it was an enticing thought/offer. However, the more I looked into it, the less I wanted to do it. ITAR requires the registration if you make, for sale, just ONE bullet.
Thanks, but no thanks. I've had too much of that danm govt during my life and want no more interaction with it.

[King6]

Hagel, how's progress?

[hagel]

I have received my casting manual from Magma and I expect the first machine to arrive within the next two weeks. I meet tomorrow with my SBDC person. We are hammering a business plan/proposal together and expect to submit it to the BVR at the end of the month. I have to meet with the head of the ME department at OU next week to start setting up the presentation I need to do to the engineering students that will end up working on the automation and control systems for the casters.

Casting butt loads of bullets and shoving them out the door is probably going to be a lot less complicated that this phase of the deal. Of course I will still have to deal with BATF, IRS, EPA, ITAR and god only knows what other government mooch. Isn't life grand!

Seriously, a lot of you guys on this list have been really helpful so far and I imagine that will continue. I hope it does and I hope that soon I can start paying it back. I need to automate the casters, the Starr luber sizer and I am hoping to build an automated gas check maker. I am also thinking really hard about building a combination safety shroud-exhaust air management system for the Master Casters. I don't want to get splattered with melted lead (again - don't ask) and I don't want to poison myself. I also am too damn cheap to let the heat pump and the melting pots fight it out all summer long and just throw away all that heat in the winter so there will probably be some way to insulate the ducting in the summer and recover the heat in the winter. In short, I hope to be able to help you guys address some of these problems. No telling just how long any of that will take though.

[HATCH]

Depending on what your casting you can adjust the cycle time.

On 105 38 wc i have run a 8 second cycle time.
When i was first setting it up i had a it running 10 seconds casting a 220 gr 41 mag. Ran it for a long time till i got to rewriting it to fix bugs.

I thought about getting a expansion board and having multiple run times based on inputs.

I might do a change that adjust the overall run time bases if double tap is turned on.