Beagling: what am i doing wrong

[DrCaveman]

So this is about the 5th Lee mold i have beagled.

The "width" dimension grows, sure. Right along at about .001-002" per layer of aluminum tape applied.

But the "length" dimension remains unchanged, still under wanted diameter on all these molds.

Run them through the sizer...the width comes out perfect, the length is still undersized.

Am i over-valuing the effects of mold beagling? I realize that a beagled mold will produce slightly out-of-round boolits, but what is the point if half the boolit is still undersize? Arent we trying to eliminate gas cutting, and trying to ensure a full bore seal?

What am i missing here?

[runfiverun]

you gain a slightly better fit.
it isn't perfect but it can be the difference between working acceptably and not working at all.
you could always use a beagled boolit to lap out the mold to gain a bit more in the other direction.

[btroj]

I find it works well of my mould drops .001 undersized or so. If it is smaller than that then I don't bother trying.

This is one of those things you just need to try. When it works, it works. Don't try to figure out why or over think it, just be glad it worked.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

the only mold I beagled was a 266469...I am lucky that this mold was fat, dropping at .2680 before any mods...then after I beagled it they drop at an out-O-round .2680 - .2705

The bore (groove dia.) on my Jap 38 is .2685

The Gas check when crimped on is sized to .2690 (with a .269 size die) whether the mold was beagled or NOT...But after Beagling, the boolit fits better.
Jon

[DrCaveman]

Alright, thanks for the replies. Looks like I'm not doing anything wrong, just expecting too much

Well, when I got frustrated with my Lee 200 gr SWC, after beagling/double beagling/lapping, I just went ahead and bought a mold from Accurate. Life was good

And as btroj says, maybe I'm over thinking things. The mantra that 'fit is king' has stuck pretty good, so I'm sort of obsessed with it lately

Maybe I'll just stop measuring diameters for a while, and just see how things go.

Let the problems actually present themselves before trying to fix them

Thanks

[btroj]

Good fit is something the gun will decide for you. If it works, doesn't lead, and feeds then it is good.
Always, and I mean always, listen to the gun. If the gun is happy and you can make holes where you want them then nothing else matters.

[41 mag fan]

So this is about the 5th Lee mold i have beagled.

The "width" dimension grows, sure. Right along at about .001-002" per layer of aluminum tape applied.

But the "length" dimension remains unchanged, still under wanted diameter on all these molds.

Run them through the sizer...the width comes out perfect, the length is still undersized.

Am i over-valuing the effects of mold beagling? I realize that a beagled mold will produce slightly out-of-round boolits, but what is the point if half the boolit is still undersize? Arent we trying to eliminate gas cutting, and trying to ensure a full bore seal?

What am i missing here?

Maybe I'm missing something here.....how are you going to get a lengthening of your cast, when all you're doing is making a fatter boolit by beagling?
To make a longer boolit, you'd have to cut the cavites longer.
I've never had a need to beagle a mold, so maybe I'm missing something here i didn't know.

[DrCaveman]

41 mag fan

A better description by me would have sounded like: the boolit diameter remains unchanged when measured from seam-to-seam, but grows when measured in the perpendicular direction.

Im not trying to 'lengthen' the boolit, sorry that was a poor word choice

[runfiverun]

beageling does only work in the one direction.
you have to lap the mold to get it to round out in both directions.

[DrCaveman]

Im taking a little haitus on lapping. My last two 'lee menting' episodes went south on me, and i foukled up a bunch of cavities. I was getting too aggressive, and the screws went through the boolits and dug into aluminum.

I had several prior episodes that went well, without damage to mold. I just never removed enough metal to make a measurable difference in boolit diameter beyond about 0.0005" and i would place that beyond my ability to accurately measure. So basically nothing

Ive squeezed extra diameter out of sizing dies using a dowel and emery cloth...but no luck with molds. Ive just resorted to saving up my beer deposit money for more molds from Accurate

[runfiverun]

that's basically the plan I use too.
I just happen to like lymans designs for the lever guns and 4 cavity molds, so I learned.

[Walter Laich]

I messed up a mold with the screw in the base method

now I open the sprue plate and place a 1/2" nut over the cavity, pour lead in till it is at the top of the nut and let cool. Open the mold and now have a lapping boolit that I can turn with either a wrench or socket. no worry about anything going throw it to ruin the mold

[MUSTANG]

In my experience when I have Beagled a mold, I have been successful in getting a Round Boolit at the sizing/lubing stage. This is predicated on the correct sizing die dimensions to squeeze down the broader size, while pushing the excess lead into the smaller size of the out of round boolit. Of course, there will also be a migration of lead lengthening the bands that may be noticeable or unnoticeable depending on the amount of lead that has migrated, how much out of round, sizing die dimension, etc...

(An Art/Not a Science?)

Mustang

[DrCaveman]

In my experience when I have Beagled a mold, I have been successful in getting a Round Boolit at the sizing/lubing stage. This is predicated on the correct sizing die dimensions to squeeze down the broader size, while pushing the excess lead into the smaller size of the out of round boolit. Of course, there will also be a migration of lead lengthening the bands that may be noticeable or unnoticeable depending on the amount of lead that has migrated, how much out of round, sizing die dimension, etc...

(An Art/Not a Science?)

Mustang

Hehe, this reminds me of my attempts to force the lee c309-150f into giving me .311" concentric boolits. Before lapping/beagling it was dropping about .3085"x.310"

I managed to get a pretty consistent .309"x.310" from the lee-menting (my best results with lapping yet) but this wasnt good enough for me. So i progressed to double-beagling and quickly got up to about .310"x.316". Yes, somehow it managed to widen the boolit, but i wont lie: there was a bit of side finning

Sizing those suckers was a CHORE! I thought i was going to break me reloading bench, i was putting so much weight on the handle. Then as the boolits came out, i saw smeared lead down two sides, to the point that the lube grooves were gone. Measurements looked pretty good so i kept going.

About 4 boolits later, the sizing die got jammed up, with the ram near full-stroke. I couldnt push it through without fear of breaking my bench, but the ram lowered OK so i pulled it down and took out the die.

I ended up drilling out the stuck boolit, and tossing the earlier sized ones. But, true to form, they had been coming out at my desired diameter. Just didnt seem shootable, and the process certainly was not sustainable. So i removed one layer of beagling and have been pretty happy ever since, although my boolits are still out of round and under my intended .311" concentric diameter

But theyre shooting pretty good now, so what the hey. Just got the lee 170 gr as a trial before choosing my Accurate mold, and im gonna leave it be, and just work on loads. Its dropping kinda small (.3085"x3095") but whats new

[a.squibload]

To avoid screwing into the mold when leementing,
I tried it with a machine screw, flat end
won't drill itself through boolit.
Drill hole part way into boolit first.
Start the lapping slowly with a screwdriver.
I used too fine a grit which only polished the
cavity. Will try coarser grit next time.

[Old School Big Bore]

If you're gonna use a screw, use one that's SHORTER THAN THE BOOLIT...there are small sheetmetal types with hex heads and a built-in washer surface that can't overpenetrate. Also if you want a shank you can chuck, and have a Dremel, the mandrel for the felt rolls has a shoulder that will stop its intrusion into the boolit and it has a 1/8" shank. The brass nut with a paper washer is the safest.

[mold maker]

The Leementing trick saved a mold from the trash. It wouldn't drop without pounding it unmercifully. After Leementing it drops on opening. I used a nut in place of the sprue, and fine grinding compound. It did enlarge .0007. A follow up with tooth paste polished the mould so I get beautiful boolits.

[DLCTEX]

I also damaged a mould when the screw ran through the boolit, but a small amount. I now drive a pointed screw into a shallow drilled hole and then use on that I ground the point off to spin the boolit. I was drilling the boolit deeper than necessary, 1/4 inch is enough. I think Beagle said in his OP that you could gain .001- .002. We push the limits sometimes.