Powder Coating 101 - Electrostatic Method

[gpidaho]

Mb54, Yup lots of us have got that little eye opener. Wonder how long it will be before some type of safety is thunk up to save us from ourselves on this gun. GP

[Beagle333]

I haven't gotten zapped yet, but I always use the same routine.... I flip off the unit, unplug the airline and blow off the electrode tip and touch that to the ground clip before touching the tray with my hands. It has worked well so far to keep me shock-free.

[robertbank]

I haven't gotten zapped yet, but I always use the same routine.... I flip off the unit, unplug the airline and blow off the electrode tip and touch that to the ground clip before touching the tray with my hands. It has worked well so far to keep me shock-free.

Ah but the shock god waits for his moment....then ZAP! It is over in an instant. Don't ask....

Take Care

Bob

[robertbank]

OK folks listen up. I have heard enough folks here tell me they have no problems to realize this process works. Well I just:

1. Pre-heated my oven to 400F as verified by an oven thermometer.
2. I cleaned my bullets before powder coating them.
3. Once PC'd I placed them in my pre-heated oven and baked them for 15 minutes.
4. I air cooled them
5. I then sized them .356
6. I loaded one of them in a 9MM case, adter belling the case and then applied a taper crimp
7. I pulled the bullet and I stared at a spot where the coating had been rubbed off!
8. I repeated the process without the crimp...the same result
9. I then sat down and asked myself what else is in play.
10. I use Dillon dies with two types of seating parts. One is completely flat for flat nose bullets but bigger than the flat point on my truncated cone bullet.
11. I switched the part so my flat nosed bullets would strike the seating part designed for the round nose bullets. The edge of my TC bullet would contact the edges of the part as the bullet was seated.
12. Loaded a bullet from this mornings batch as before, applied the crimp and then pulled the bullet.
13. No coating was rubbed off. NONE!
14. I then loaded a bullet from an old batch of bullets using the round nose seating part and no coating was rubbed off. NONE!

It would appear it was the seating die that was tilting the bullet as it seated likely applying pressure on the side of the bullet. All it takes is the flat part of the bullet not to be completely flat for the bullet to be tilted as it seats. This would explain why my 38spl bullets worked fine. They are round nose and I use the RN end of the 38spl seating die. Had I used the flat nose end I likely would have run into the same problem.

You have no idea how relieved I am. I only have about 300 cartridges loaded with bullets that likely will produce some leading then I should be over the hump. What a journey. Thankfully it is over. For all those who said they had no problems with the powder coating, I thank you.

Next week I will be on to HI-TEk and had I not discovered the solution as described I would have likely experienced the same problem with my 9MM bullets.

I think I need a drink of Scotch.

Take Care

Bob

[BRobertson]

Bob,

I will drink a toast of Lagavulin to your success tonight!!


Bob

[robertbank]

Thanks, I could write a book about the Dillon seating dies and in particular the 9mm versions.

Take Care

Bob

[bangerjim]

That is why I use LEE dies.............I have never had any problems with 223 thru 45LC.

banger-j

[jcwit]

That is why I use LEE dies.............I have never had any problems with 223 thru 45LC.

banger-j

As do I, mayhap therein lays the secret.

[robertbank]

Well I like the Lee seating dies and use them Lee dies in a number of calibers. Dillon dies have some advantages as well. Lee dies are cheaper which is why I have them for a few calibers I don't load frequently. The Dillon seating dies have but one failing IMHO and that is the seating stub. They suck big time for lead bullets. They work great for plated and jacketed bullets.

Take Care

Bob

[Beagle333]

I love the Hornady Custom Grade New Dimension seating dies with the floating boolit alignment sleeve that holds the boolit in perfect alignment with the case all the way through the seating process.

[robertbank]

I love the Hornady Custom Grade New Dimension seating dies with the floating boolit alignment sleeve that holds the boolit in perfect alignment with the case all the way through the seating process.

I have the Hornady Competition Seating die I would not sell to a friend. It has a micrometer setting and everything. Unfortunately the sleeve fits over the olgive of the Lyman 356402 bullet causing the bullet depth to be set by the case mouth. If you know a cure for this malady please let me know.

Right now it is a paper weight.

Bob

[Beagle333]

Good thing I didn't sell anybody one, I just said that I love them. I guess they're not for everybody.

[Maximumbob54]

I tend to try and avoid round nose bullets. I've seen too many times where during seating the tip would flatten a bit and then the crimp didn't go in the groove. Flat nose bullets don't seem to have this issue. But then if I use my Lee seating dies I get the edge rounded since Lee only see's fit to make a "universal" seater plug. Up until now I've fixed this by purchasing RCBS seating dies to use the flat nose seater plug. Now it seems Lee is offering custom order seater plugs and I really need to order one for ever set of die I own. Link if anyone else is interested:

http://leeprecision.com/custom-bullet-seating-plug.html

[ioon44]

OK folks listen up. I have heard enough folks here tell me they have no problems to realize this process works. Well I just:

1. Pre-heated my oven to 400F as verified by an oven thermometer.
2. I cleaned my bullets before powder coating them.
3. Once PC'd I placed them in my pre-heated oven and baked them for 15 minutes.
4. I air cooled them
5. I then sized them .356
6. I loaded one of them in a 9MM case, adter belling the case and then applied a taper crimp
7. I pulled the bullet and I stared at a spot where the coating had been rubbed off!
8. I repeated the process without the crimp...the same result
9. I then sat down and asked myself what else is in play.
10. I use Dillon dies with two types of seating parts. One is completely flat for flat nose bullets but bigger than the flat point on my truncated cone bullet.
11. I switched the part so my flat nosed bullets would strike the seating part designed for the round nose bullets. The edge of my TC bullet would contact the edges of the part as the bullet was seated.
12. Loaded a bullet from this mornings batch as before, applied the crimp and then pulled the bullet.
13. No coating was rubbed off. NONE!
14. I then loaded a bullet from an old batch of bullets using the round nose seating part and no coating was rubbed off. NONE!

It would appear it was the seating die that was tilting the bullet as it seated likely applying pressure on the side of the bullet. All it takes is the flat part of the bullet not to be completely flat for the bullet to be tilted as it seats. This would explain why my 38spl bullets worked fine. They are round nose and I use the RN end of the 38spl seating die. Had I used the flat nose end I likely would have run into the same problem.

You have no idea how relieved I am. I only have about 300 cartridges loaded with bullets that likely will produce some leading then I should be over the hump. What a journey. Thankfully it is over. For all those who said they had no problems with the powder coating, I thank you.

Next week I will be on to HI-TEk and had I not discovered the solution as described I would have likely experienced the same problem with my 9MM bullets.

I think I need a drink of Scotch.

Take Care

Bob

"5. I then sized them .356"

Have you slugged your barrels? Most 9mm barrels I have measured run .356" to .357", I have the best results with .3575" boolits.

[gpidaho]

Bob: Glad the answer has been found. One of the things I love about PC is that I can once again use my Redding comp. seating dies from way back in the olden days of jacketed bullets. GP

[Moonie]

"5. I then sized them .356"

Have you slugged your barrels? Most 9mm barrels I have measured run .356" to .357", I have the best results with .3575" boolits.

I have to agree, if the boolits pass the smash test this is most likely the issue. I have yet to slug a 9mm that was .355, some as large as .358.

[robertbank]

I have to agree, if the boolits pass the smash test this is most likely the issue. I have yet to slug a 9mm that was .355, some as large as .358.

Folks I have been using .357 and when I ran into the problems with .357 I switched to .356 and nothing changed. I have 2 M&P's, one Tanfanglio, and 3 CZ pistols all in 9MM and none have ever leaded using the 356402 bullet bullets sized either 356 or 357. An undersized bullet will cause leading by gas cutting. PCing bullets should eliminate the gas cutting issue in the same manor plated or jacketed bullets do by placing a hard coating between the barrel and the bullet as it passes down the barrel. Note plated and jacketed bullets are sized .355. I have never owned a CZ pistol with a bore larger than .355.

I know what the issue was. The coating was being scrapped or rubbed off when the bullets were seated. I proved that by pulling the bullets. If their is exposed lead on the driving bands of a none lubricated bullet you are going to get leading. By changing the stub I eliminated the rubbing or scrapping off of coating. This afternoon I expect to find no leading with the bullets. I'll post the results here.

While the conclusion you make is the one I initially came to it doesn't stand the test upon more study. That is why I pulled the bullets to find out what the situation was with the bullets BEFORE firing. If they start out wrong that nothing is going to happen to make things better. Moonie slug a Tanfoglio or CZ barrel and you may well discover your first .355 barrel. In any event after PCing these bullets they are going to be annealed from their time in the oven so I would expect the bullets to obuterate rather fully which should seal the bore pretty tight. I doubt I will find gas cut lead in the barrel this afternoon.

Take care

Bob

[robertbank]

Bob: Glad the answer has been found. One of the things I love about PC is that I can once again use my Redding comp. seating dies from way back in the olden days of jacketed bullets. GP

I am in the search for a decent seating die that will handle my 356402 bullet. I have a machinist friend who should be able to make me a sub for either the Lee or Dillon die to match the olgive of the 356402 bullet. This maybe the least expensive solve to the seating issue. My move to the RN stub is a fix but not the best as it still is subject to variants in the size of the olgive of the bullet.

As posted earlier I intend to switch to the HI-TEK product once the weather turns next week. I also intend to continue to use powder coating during the winter. With high humidity and cold weather in the winter the HI-TEK may well have issue with drying when it is -15C and a wind blowing. If the method doesn't these old bones will.

Thanks for the reply, all the best

Bob

[jcwit]

I have not been sizing my cast boolits, I PC them as cast, then load them and shoot them. No leading when using PC'ing.

[robertbank]

I have not been sizing my cast boolits, I PC them as cast, then load them and shoot them. No leading when using PC'ing.

What gun/caliber are you shooting them in. Sometimes that works and sometimes not. CZ's have tight chambers ie made to SAMMI specs. Fat bullets sometimes cause problems in autos. Glocks and to a lessor extent M&P's have pretty generous chambers and for the most part will shoot anything you stuff into them. They are designed that way on purpose. My handguns are all for sport, IDPA in the main, and having FTF during a stage is not what I want to experience so reliable function is high on my list. A poorly functioning gun due to bad ammo will ruin your day of shooting in a hurry, at a match. I see it at matches. This is one reason why I size my bullets. It just eliminates one issue for my autos.

I have had a few military rifles I never sized for and would have been happier with even fatter bullets than my molds would drop. The two I have now like their particular sized bullets and shoot well, life is good.

Take Care

Bob