32-20 revolver loads

[Outpost75]

Thanks, Outpost75... this will give me a little more incentive to dust off the S&W M&P in 32-20... Unfortunately the S&W predates the improved heat treating so I don't want to push it quite so hard. Regards from the Piedmont, Froggie

The 3.0-3.2 grain load of Bullseye should be perfectly fine in the pre-1918 S&W .32-20 Hand Ejector, as it is a standard pressure load, 770-830 fps. Some data sources go higher, up to 3.4 grains, 900 fps, but I don't recommend it in the older guns. You have to be careful not to shoot Ken Water's loads intended for the later heat-treated models in it, because you will loosen up and shake the gun apart.

[Green Frog]

That reinforces what I had read and calculated myself... always a good thing (or at least reassuring.) I'm probably not going to do much with the old S&W since it has such limited strength. Instead, if it proves sufficiently accurate, the Uberti SAA seems like a better candidate as "test mule." This is one of the ones that Val had his gunsmith go through and do an action job along with putting in Wolff springs... sort of like the deluxe Smoke Wagons that Taylor's does now. I have pretty high hopes for that one.

Froggie

PS I think I have an appropriate rotor for one of my old Pcific Pistol Powder Measure that I can dedicate t my "finalized" load.

[9.3X62AL]

Caution on loadings strength in older 32/20 WCF wheelguns is always good policy. I cobbled up a revolver-specific 32/20 bullet design about 10 years ago, my MMSFT (Mountain Molds Short Fat Thirty). It falls out at .315" in pure lead and not quite .316" in 92/6/2. Weight range is 121-119 grains. It gets 5.0-5.5 grains of SR-4756 historically, and now that IMR has stopped shipping SR-4756 I am exploring Herco as its replacement. In a couple other (stronger) calibers, it seems to run neck-and-neck yield-wise/grain-for-grain with SR-4756 testing moderate and higher-end pressure levels in magnum revolvers (2 examples each in 357 and 44 Magnum).

[Outpost75]

FYI here is what Accurate 31-105T bullet looks like alongside classic factory lead bullets in .32 Colt NP and .32-20

My mold arrived in ten days from order!

Attachment 201627

[smkummer]

This is interesting as I see I first responded to this thread back in 2013 when all I could contribute was what I knew reloading for someone else. Since then, I have acquired both a Colt police positive special and an Army Special in this caliber. Ideal single cavity mold number 3118 also. So I have settled on the old data of 4.5 grains unique behind the hard cast 115 grain bullet. Shoots to the sights in both guns (both with a 5" barrel), book data says 925 FPS and really feels no different than if I were firing a standard 38 special out of either gun.

[Outpost75]

The 925 fps figure is a bit optimistic for a revolver, as the factories base their velocities on a 6" solid test barrel. In a 5" revolver with cylinder gap at mean assembly tolerance of 0.005" I would expect 850 +/- 30 fps with the expectation of +10 fps for each inch of additional barrel length or 0.001" reduction in cylinder gap. At least, that is "normal" for standard pressure .38 Special and I would not expect .32-20 to be any different.

Jacketed 100-grain softpoint .32-20 bullets normally run .310-.311" diameter and because typical revolver cylinder throats normally run .313-.315, you can expect significant velocity loss caused by gas leakage around the bullet. If barrel-cylinder gap is also towards the maximum of 0.008" the combined velocity loss can be 100 fps or more and you run the risk of sticking a bullet in the barrel. While jacketed .32-20 ammo is "safe" pressure-wise, I do not recommend it in revolvers having loose cylinder gaps of over 0.008"!

I pulled down some .32-20 factory loads to measure bullet diameters and weigh powder charges, and thought the info would be of interest, so am posting it here. When time and weather permit, I also plan to chronograph these loads out of the 5" Colt and a 25" Savage boltgun, so that we have a solid benchmark for what the vintage factory loads really did, having tested multiple samples of ammo manufactured over the period from the 1930s into the current era.

Rem-UMC headstamp, dark green Bridgeport "Dogbone" box (1930s), bullet dia. .314" cup based, knurled cannelure and black grease, 10 grains single-perforated flake, gray-green color, believed Hercules Sharpshooter.

R-P headstamp, large type, mint green and white Bridgeport box with red overprint (1960s), bullet dia. .314" knurl and lube same as above, 4.5 grains round flake, gray-green not perforated, believed Hercules Infallible

W-W headstamp, nickel plated, round domed primer, yellow box (1970s), .313" bullet unplated, knurled cannelure, white wax lube, 6.5 grains black rolled Ball powder, believed WC630

W-W headstamp, nickel plated, flat-domed primer, white box with red and blue overprint (1990s), .311" bullet, knurled cannelure, white wax lube, 3.5 grains green-gray rolled Ball powder, believed WC231

R-P headstamp, nickel plated, flat domed primer, olive green and yellow box with Bridgeport, CT address (late 1970s), .311" bullet, knurled groove, dry graphite lube, 4.5 grains round flake not perforated, appearance similar to PB.

R-P headstamp, nickel plated, flat domed primer, olive green and yellow box with Loanoke, AR address (2000), .311" bullet is smooth sided without cannelure, dry graphite lube, 3.1 grains small gray-green flake, granulation resembles Bullseye.

[Scharfschuetze]

Nice looking 32/20 revolvers throughout the thread and good information as well.

While I have both a 32/20 rifle (Marlin 1894) and a Smith & Wesson revolver, I keep the rifles loads separate from the revolver loads, although I don't hesitate to shoot the revolver loads in the rifle.

I didn't post a photo of my revolver in my original post, but here it is. A Third Model S&W Hand Ejector with the 6" tube.

[9.3X62AL]

Rifle-level loads get put up in Starline brass; R-P and W-W brass are handgun-level loadings at my house.

[Outpost75]

Rifle-level loads get put up in Starline brass; R-P and W-W brass are handgun-level loadings at my house.

Same here!

Attachment 201893Attachment 201895Attachment 201894

[Dan Cash]

I obtained a .32-20 Marlin about 3 years ago and began feeding it some loads I made for my shooting partner's 92 win. They are Starline cases with the Accurate 31-105 T bullet over 10 grain of 2400 and a Remington standard small rifle primer. Probably not the best/most accurate load in this caliber but I have lots of 2400 and it works. I found the load to be rough on the brass.

A .32-20 Colt Army Special come to live with me and I did not care for the 10 grain load in that revolver. A bit of tinkering and some chronographing led me to settle on 9.4 gr. 2400 with the other components being the same. The revolver likes the load, brass lasts longer and it works well in the rifle. Later, an Uberti 1873 SA joined the stables and it too does very well with the 9.4 grain load.

The .32-20s get shot more than any other handgun that I own, usually about 12 rounds a day from the six guns and random shooting when I am out with the rifle which is always in my truck. I refuse to make different loads for rifle and pistol for the same reason I don't put .357 loads in .38 cases; they will get mixed up with unpleasant results.

[rintinglen]

My solution to the problem of Rifle vs Revolver loads is to load my pistol loads with RCBS or NOE wadcutters and then the Rifle loads with the RCBS 32-98 SWC. Revolver loads get 3.2 grains of ww-231 while the rifle gets 5.0 grains of Unique. The Lee Factory Crimp Die will pay for itself in cases not damaged by crimping. I have a Police Positive Special from about 1932, a 1919 S&W hand ejector and an Army Special. The Army Special is the most accurate.

The rifle still gets shot, but these days my Single Sevens get most of the Fun--the 327 loads easier and shoots straighter. I'm looking for a 22 Hornet Handi-rifle to convert to 327.

[Outpost75]

...Starline cases with the Accurate 31-105 T bullet over 10 grain of 2400 and a Remington standard small rifle primer...I found the load to be rough on the brass.

A .32-20 Colt Army Special come to live with me and I did not care for the 10 grain load in that revolver. A bit of tinkering and some chronographing led me to settle on 9.4 gr. 2400 with the other components being the same. The revolver likes the load, brass lasts longer and it works well in the rifle. Later, an Uberti 1873 SA joined the stables and it too does very well with the 9.4 grain load... I refuse to make different loads for rifle and pistol for the same reason I don't put .357 loads in .38 cases; they will get mixed up with unpleasant results.

Dan, thanks, good info!

What velocity did you get with the 9.4 of Alliant #2400 with Accurate 31-105T in revolver vs. rifle.

I have some loaded with 8.4 grains, but haven't shot them over the screens yet.
A wee bit of unburned powder, but not objectionable. I'm using Remington 1-1/2s, maybe I should try a magnum primer.
Current Speer manual at least in .357 no longer recommends magnum primers with #2400...

3.2 of Bullseye very accurate, mild like factory load.

[9.3X62AL]

Not meaning to stray far off-topic here......but in my small-capacity rifle cases like 22 Hornet, 25/20 WCF, 30 U.S. Carbine, and 32/20 WCF the use of Rem #6-1/2 primers enhanced grouping and shot-to-shot consistency over that given by CCI and Winchester small rifle primers. My understanding is that the Rem 6-1/2's characteristics are optimized for these smaller case sizes, while their #7-1/2 primers are meant for the 222 Rem & 223 Rem-class casing sizes. I have yet to try the 6-1/2s in 32/20 revolver applications, but it might be worthy of exploration if ignition issues are cropping up--especially over-ignition shoving bullets out prematurely.

[Dan Cash]

Dan, thanks, good info!

What velocity did you get with the 9.4 of Alliant #2400 with Accurate 31-105T in revolver vs. rifle.

I have some loaded with 8.4 grains, but haven't shot them over the screens yet.
A wee bit of unburned powder, but not objectionable. I'm using Remington 1-1/2s, maybe I should try a magnum primer.
Current Speer manual at least in .357 no longer recommends magnum primers with #2400...

3.2 of Bullseye very accurate, mild like factory load.

Outpost,
I had to go back and re chronograph the 9.4 gr 2400 load so I did that about 5 minutes ago. I shot 5 shot strings through each of 3 guns. Average was: 5 1/2 in Uberti, 1250; 5 1/2 Colt Army Special, 1200, and Marlin 20" 94, 1700. Accuracy is quite good and the little bullet makes a terrible wound in porcupines, skunks, prairie dogs etc. Leading is nonexistant.

[Outpost75]

Thx. Dan. I think my 8.4 grain load will be closer to the level I want to shoot in my Police Positive Special, probably better to reduce to 8.0!

[9.3X62AL]

Whew! STALWART ballistics in a handgun from that 9.4 x 2400 dosage. 1700 FPS in the long gun is definite "rifle country" for me. Good to know, all the same. Many thanks.

This will sound over-cautious and rather indulgent to my 32/20 sideiron, but having a 30 Carbine Blackhawk--a S&W Model 16-4 x 6" in 32 H&R Mag--and now a Ruger SP-101 x 4.2" in 327 Federal, I really can't justify getting creative with loadings for my older revolvers, all of which are near or past the century-old mark. That Blackhawk does a real good job already of precipitating earthquakes in fault zones with its report, and the 327 promises similar exhilarations.

By the same token, I do want to exploit whatever reasonable performance envelope that the cartridge offers mindful of its platform's mechanical integrity. It is clear from Outpost's survey of factory cartridge offerings in the caliber--esp. the more recent editions--that the 32/20 is loaded down to "Lowest common denominator" levels. That might be appropriate for some Spanish clone of a S&W or perhaps a Colt PPS, but those of us with good-order wheelguns of strength can obtain better performance and enhanced accuracy by grooming our ammo for the arms being reloaded for. That's why we got into this hobby initially, right?

[Outpost75]

... I do want to exploit whatever reasonable performance envelope that the cartridge offers mindful of its platform's mechanical integrity. It is clear from Outpost's survey of factory cartridge offerings in the caliber--esp. the more recent editions--that the 32/20 is loaded down to "Lowest common denominator" levels. That might be appropriate for some Spanish clone of a S&W or perhaps a Colt PPS, but those of us with good-order wheelguns of strength can obtain better performance and enhanced accuracy by grooming our ammo for the arms being reloaded for. That's why we got into this hobby initially, right?

I would agree! I wouldn't recommend loads which appreciably exceed 900 fps with 100-115 grain bullets in the Colt Police Positive Special and the early un-heat-treated S&Ws .32-20 Hand Ejectors.

I find it an interesting observation that the 1851 Colt Navy with round ball and full black powder charge fairly equals the payload and velocity of the .32-20, as do also the .380 ACP and modern "full charge" loads we have discussed here for the .32 ACP and .32 S&W Long. I believe that also defined the performance envelope for a "trail gun" which would be used to gather small game and birds for the pot.

S&W Hand Ejectors made after 1918 and smokeless-frame Colt Single Actions can certainly “modestly exceed” these levels, fully equaling the performance of .32 H&R Magnum factory loads, 1000-1100 fps with 85-100 grain bullets.

But my feeling is that if your satisfaction requires that cylinder flash singe the hair off of your hands, and muzzle flash bring spots before your eyes, then the Ruger Buckeye Special .32 H&R/.32-20 Convertible, the .30 Carbine and .327 Rugers are “your huckleberry.” Such loads offer flatter trajectory and longer range for varmint shooting, but are overly destructive on small game. Whether they would be superior as defense loads is debatable...

But the bottom line for me is please don’t overload and abuse those lovely old classic .32-20s!

[Harry O]

On thing to keep in mind if you have different loads for different guns that take different pressures: In addition to keeping them in clearly marked bags or boxes, also use different bullets for different loads. That way, if they are separated from their boxes, you can tell what is in them. Two very different pressure loads with the same bullet is a recipe for disaster.

For my light load, I use a soft cast RCBS 98gr RNFP. The medium load uses either a 115gr cast hollow-point bullet or a 100gr Hornady STP hollow-point. The heavy rifle load uses Remington 100gr jacketed flat-nose soft-points.

I would never use some of the loads suggested here in my Colt Police Positive Special. It is one of the lightest 32-20 handguns made. Of course, I already bent it once with one cylinder of "rifle only" factory loads. To each his own, however.

[9.3X62AL]

My 32/20 loads are pretty discernible between modest-for-wheelguns and stalwart-for-levergun. If there is a shadow of doubt, into the Marlin it goes.

[Green Frog]

So does the modern made Uberti copy of a SAA give me a strong enough platform for the "healthy" 32-20 loads or am I still going to have to limit myself to the "old revolver" levels? I'm trying to consolidate the number of guns I have, and have already decided that the "antique" S&W 32-20 M&P is going to go down the road as will a couple of other under utilized or less appreciated items, and I need to decide whether my current holdings will enable a somewhat high performance 32-20 or whether I've got to step back and try to find a different gun (like the Buckeye Special I so foolishly sold 25 years ago, perhaps?) Decisions, decisions...

Froggie