Whats your favorite Pumpkin ball load?

[mikenbarb]

Im working up data for a .690dia round ball(Punkin ball) for my 12ga SxS. Im also trying various alloys from pure lead to Lyman #2 alloy. I have the data from the Lyman #3 shotshell manual and so far so good but its not quite there yet for hunting accuracy out to around 50yds. Does anyone have a favorite load that want to share?

[cpileri]

I tried these. Probably not powerful enough to hunt with, or at least, velocity can be pushed higher if you wanted to. i used pretty close to minimums to get an accuracy estimate.

Load: 1
Hull: Grey Win HS 2.75”
Primer: Fio 616
Powder & Charge: 2x 17.5 Green Dot, 2 x18.5gr Green Dot
Wad column: Win12AA
Load: .678 Round Ball (intended for .727 bore)
Overshot (if any) & Crimp: fold (poorly)

Load: 2
Hull: Fed 3” red
Primer: Fed 209
Powder & Charge: 17gr Green Dot
Wad column: X12X gas seal, ¾ Circle Fly Fiber 12ga wad, Win 12AA w petals cut off
Load: .735 Rb paper patched to .741, paper tail inserted into 2x ‘donut’ felt wads
Overshot (if any) & Crimp: fold (poorly)

Load: 3
Hull: Fio 3” brown
Primer: Fio 616
Powder & Charge: 17gr Green Dot
Wad column: X12X, Down Range (aftermarket for Hornady) Versalite, 2x20ga in cup to bring ball up
Load: .678 RB (better fit for .737 bore)
Overshot (if any) & Crimp: roll (2 w/ clear OS disc, one w/ just roll crimp)


Have you slugged your bore and read all of the ball-wad-cup-fit posts by Ajay?

C-

[longbow]

Not sure if this will help but... my favourite round ball loads are for 0.735" naked ball over a hard card wad column or for 0.678" round ball in a shotcup. Good loads run 3" to 4" at 50 yards from smoothbore with either. That is cylinder bore smoothbore.

I started out with 0.690" RB but failed to achieve acceptable accuracy.

I went to sub bore in a shotcup using 0.662" and 0.678" balls and bore size using 0.735" balls.

Not what you are asking. However, what might help is, along the way, using any ball size, I found that when a ball is simply dropped into a shotcup or onto a cushion leg and crimped, the recovered wads tended to be in bad shape showing cracking, tearing and failed gas seals because the wad tried to wrap around the ball. I added a nitro card wad or two on top of the cushion leg and that helped some. Then I put a scoop of Cream 'O Wheat on top of the nitro card wad(s) before dropping in the ball and that made a big difference in accuracy.

I use 12 ga. 1/8" nitro card wads under the 0.735" RB and either 20 or 16 ga. inside a shotcup.

IIRC the Lyman manual says to cut the petals off the wad. Regardless, with most wads you will have to cut petals or the ball won't fit, then it is too sloppy for the bore... at least in my guns. That's fine but use a nitro card wad and COW between cushion leg and ball.

What you might try is an inverted gas seal (cup up) under the ball. That should help keep it centered in the bore.

BPI lists a 0.690" ball load with one of their wads so it must have thin petals to work.

As for powder, I have mostly used Blue Dot under round balls and have had good success with Blue Dot under slugs/balls from 1 oz. to over 800 grs.

I based my 0.735" RB (580 grs.) on Precision Rifle's published data for their 610 gr. slug. Starting load was 36 grs. and max load was 44 grs. at 12,500 PSI which seems a bit high to me and they were vague as to other components except for using a straight walled hull. No matter, my recoil tolerance maxed out at 38 grs. in a light gun. No pressure signs I just got punch drunk!

SR4756 was recommended to me by a friend so I picked up a couple of pounds and am currently using that. So far I see little difference in performance. No complaints with either powder.

If you are looking for load data, I would be inclined to use the load data for the Lyman sabot slug which is a little heavier at 525 grs. Lots of recipes there and you would only need to add nitro card wads and COW to get the ball to crimp height.

That's all I've got.

Longbow

[Hogtamer]

Forget the COW cpileri, a proper southern man uses grits! Otherwise I'm sure Longbow is a reliable source of information.

[cpileri]

Man, are you some kind of mindreader?!!? I just finished asking The Boss if we had any Cream of Wheat!

Yes, really.

But I am thinking any powder that will compress into a solid, shaped mass under pressure will do the same. if one were so inclined, (s)he could make a custom "wadcup cushion": bottom flat or otherwise conforming to the base of the wad cup, and top concave to conform to the 'bottom' of the ball; so the ball could be supported and centered in the cup and therefore the bore.
C-

ps. i was also brainstorming a double-concave type cushion (hard, though) for in between multi-ball loads. But another topic...

[longbow]

Yup, cornmeal, grits, semolina, or if you are really scraping to find something ~ shotgun buffer. Well, I may be wrong on the shotgun buffer. I think you want something that will compress a bit and pack a bit to form a nice seat for the ball. Might be better if it doesn't flow easily like shotgun buffer but that's just a "gut feel" thing. I wouldn't use flour though.

And, I apologize to all southerners ~ I had forgotten about how sensitive y'all are about your grits. It should work just fine.

cpileri: It seems to me someone just posted something about some kind of cushion between double ball loads. Do a search or peruse recent posts and you may find it. Too long a payload might become an issue if the spacer is very thick.

Longbow

[Hogtamer]

I'm going to give the .570 two-ball another try out of 12 ga. With different components. I recall from reading about the Tri-ball loads out of 3" hulls that lead to lead contact was important. I was able to get one ball reliably on target but one flyer as well @ 50 yds.

[cpileri]

I'm loading some COW loads tomorrow, and will include results in my future test load thread. ANyway,
mikenbarb,
If you're looking for accuracy out of your smoothbore with a round ball, do like Ajay recommends and add a few longbow and turbo tricks.
if you slug your bore, then take the slug/wad that measures up properly as described in reply #312 here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?150140-VdoMemorie-Blazing-Sabot!&p=2269580&viewfull=1#post2269580
but I like this picture better, in reply #125:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?150140-VdoMemorie-Blazing-Sabot!&p=1897292&viewfull=1#post1897292
except that it describes a .678 round ball, so take that 0.12" into account.
then test it by shoving it back thru the bore as seen in reply # 331 (and other places) here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?150140-VdoMemorie-Blazing-Sabot!/page17

Then get the wad petals short or raise the ball w COW or hard cards so that the ball opens the crimp and not the petals.
And get a good gas seal.

The question that we were discussing above has to do with what is directly under the slug: give it a hard platform (hard card or wad cup) to push against - or rather, to push against it- vs. a conforming pile of COW, which may under pressure end up a hard wad anyway(*). Experiment with us.

Use a starting load that is WELL within SAAMI for an equivalent amount of lead shot weight (i.e. a .678Rb=1 ounce, etc). Powder seems to vary w availability; but Blue Dot, Red Dot, and Green Dot get alot of use.

How does that sound? Ajay, etal, did I miss anything?

C-

(*) my suspicion is that a custom fitted hard "cup" under the ball would be best, and that the COW aids accuracy by basically forming that hard but concave shaped base under pressure; i..e it starts out powder, but under the force from the wad compressing it against the ball and the walls of the cup, it becomes and/or behaves like a solid; and this centers the round ball. Just my guess. I'll be experimenting to find out.

[ElDorado]

It's been 10 or 12 years since I loaded round balls in the 12 ga. My load also comes out of Lyman's Third Shotshell Handbook. I never hunted with the load; we just shot it for fun. I don't remember doing any kind of accuracy testing on targets, but I do remember consistent hits on a pumpkin at about 35 – 40 yards. I was hoping for a dramatic effect, but it just punched clean holes through and through. The firearm was a Mossberg 500 with a rifled bore and iron sights.

.690 Pure Lead Round Ball
Case: Winchester AA
Primer: Winchester 209
Powder: 37.0 gr SR 4756
Wad:

Winchester WAA12 w/ petals removed

Two .125” cards (I think I used Butler Products Brand)

Roll crimped

I also have the note “Accurate Load” hand written and highlighted next to the load, so I must have liked it. As I recall, I used one of those Butler Products roll crimpers that are used in a drill press, and I had to trim a little bit off of the case to get the crimp the way I liked it.

Jeff

[longbow]

Ooooohhhh! Is that an attached wad slug there or just a slug sitting on a gas seal? I like it if it is an attached wad slug.

Yeah, I should order some of those BPI brush wads. I have never tried them but have read they work well and they do look good.

One of the nice things about 0.690" RB's is that they will go through most chokes up to full, should they meet one, and they pack a little more weight than 0.662" or 0.678" balls. That brush wad should work well with them. Good idea.

Longbow

[cpileri]

I tried the "cream of wheat" theory but used Malt-o-meal and got what I consider stellar results! Picture in my thread called Test 3: Hubel-FH-Blazing-Dixie-inspired loads, or something like that, posted today.
Hope it helps.
C-

[mikenbarb]

Im game on the BPI wad. It looks like it might have enough skirt to engage rifling. I may just just have to run a few thru my Hastings to say I tried.

[longbow]

I am going to hazard a guess that even if the brush wad engages the rifling okay the ball will not so will not pick up any spin. A paper or Teflon wrap might work though. Not sure of your groover diameter but I checked a Remington 870 that was 0.727" groove so 0.037" difference to the ball. Just wrap up to the difference and give 'er a go.

Even if the ball is undersize, you should get "smoothbore" accuracy which isn't too bad at all.

Longbow

[BAGTIC]

If the wad engages the rifling it is going to rotate and a the ball is being forced into close contact with the wad as it accelerates it is going to pickup at least some spin and that is enough. Round balls don't need to be spun to develop stability as they are inherently 'stable'. They just need a slow roll like rockets to average out any deviations in path due to small imperfections.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
My best orientation with Grits came at Ft. Hood in central TX back in 71. We were out in the bushes with our M60A1 tanks. Each morning the Com. General wanted fresh grits. Had to be a certain brand from a fresh opened box. Well one morning there was no more so his Huey UH1 was dispatched to a grocery parking lot and the C. G. had his fresh hot grits. But there was no money for a lower oil cooler line ???
I would wonder if the inertia of the RB to not spin would overcome the pressure being exerted on the wad as it accelerates down the barrel ? Is this Newton's 1st law.. All Matter that is at rest tends to remain at rest.. Maybe with a dobber of hot glue ?
Some years ago working with .685 RB in Winchester Yellow wads after having read the Russians used a "donut" wad in their RB loads tried a plastic donut with the edge supporting the RB chamfered to better seat on the RB. The other edge of the plastic donut was left flat to sit flat on the inside of the wad. The height of the plastic donut was only tall enough so the RB still touched the wad bottom. Increased accuracy by 35% .
But it was no better than any of the fore mentioned ground meals that are much easier and faster to use. I would not be surprised if fine saw dust also would work. Had thought about a fine sifted sand used for finish cement work but shooting sand grit down a barrel did not sound like a great idea.
Mike in Peru

[swheeler]

Just one Peters Blue Magic hull, 26.5 gr IMR SR 4756, 209A Pr, WAA 12R cut back, 30 grs cornmeal, .690 Lee cast of pure lead weighs 494 grs. Not fast but accurate enough for me, 1175 fps

[bikerbeans]

20ga RB load

2.75" Win AA Hull
Fed 209
WSF 20 grains
Trap Commander Wad
(1) 28ga,1/8" nitro card inside the wad, under the ball (thanks Ajay!)
.575 RB, air cooled WW lead, from a Lee 2 cav mold
8 pt fold crimp, note the wad column is short so the fold goes in similar to a roll crimp and you can see the RB. The RB is held in place and does not move.

These are minute of pie plate to about 50 yards out of a 20" smoothbore 870 Rem slug gun. These are not hunting loads, my wife uses them in 3-gun shoots. I like them cause they save me over a buck a round when compare to her shooting factory foster slugs.

I have the Lee .690 RB mold and plan to try them soon for my son to use in the 3-gun shoots.

BB

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello BikerBeans, please make some corrections,

if you do not put enough nitro cards below the RB the fold will cave-in due to no support from the RB, the caving in will raise the pressure a bit and nothing to worry but you can reduce the charge by a grain or two.

If you follow the way I say then your accuracy will improve.
I'm glad somebody is using my idea and that my efforts are not in vain.
I personally love those baby loads, nothing but fun to shoot and very accurate, costing no more than 15 to 20 cent's.

I really hope some of you really called to give Savage upper Management to think about by putting pressure!
Now its your turn to call.

Life is too short but you can trust this guy, his " Balls are too small "
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-are-too-small
Its not every day I get a laugh like this, go ahead treat yourself to this refreshing treat!
It took me days to recover from this experience!


I'm proud to be a Elite Musketeer, among other Elite Musketeer's here.

Best regards,
Ajay
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-Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.

[bigted]

only cause nobody has beat me to the punch here. ill spin in with my "favorite" ball smoothie load.

1- take yer .690 ball and wrap it in .020 cloth patch. lube the patch with bore butter or bee wax and Vaseline combo. now dump down the barrel 90 grains of GOEX 2F powder and chase the powder with the patched ball and shove it all onto the breech plug. now do the same with the other barrel ... now cap the barrels and be ready for maybe the best time with a double barrel muzzleloading shotgun.

2nd load is a bit liter being 80 grains of the same powder behind the same patched ball's with the same accuracy.

my navy arms Pietta double with both cylinder bore barrels will put these punkin balls into an inch at 35 yards. I can hit rocks at will at this short range and have not tried them at longer yardage yet.

[bikerbeans]

Ajay,

I load them so the crimp folds all the way down so you can see the RB. This way my wife doesn't try knocking down the steel targets with 7 1/2 shot. Just helps with the ID of the round. I would roll crimp them but all my hulls have been reloaded several times and don't roll crimp very well.

BB