3/8" 100 yard 5 shot group?

[W.R.Buchanan]

I just read a story in the new rifle magazine about Dave Scovill and his Winchester 69A with a 4x scope shooting a 3/8" 5 shot group at 100 yds.while testing various brands of ammo.

Has any one ever done this?

I have to respectfully call BS.

I don't think there is a .22 on this planet that will shoot that good, let alone a Winchester made in the 50's. My best friend thru high school had one just like it and it never saw anything as close as that.

And with CCI mini mags?

I have seen groups like that from recent high end sporting rifles and target rifles at 50 yds? But not at 100.

even so it's not so much about the gun as the ammo. I doubt even Eley match ammo would shoot this good.

It was purported to be a calm day!

Maybe it was a typo?

I may be wrong in calling BS on this one but if it's true I would want that gun badly.

I'm sure the target is on his wall at work.

Randy

[Forrest r]

I call it BS!!!!

Never seen a lot of m-mags yet that's had a low enough sd to be capable of holding that small of a group.

[Marine Sgt 2111]

I would have to say that it was either a very, very fortunate group for him or it's BS. The very best I have ever gotten from a .22 was from my Winchester 52b(repro) using Federal UMB ammo on a dead calm day. 10 shots into 5/8" at 100 yds, on at perfectly windless summers day. I have no more UMB and have come close to that with Wolf match but never better.

[imashooter2]

The probability of dynamiting a stack of logs and winding up with a shack isn't zero.

Consistent 3/8 inch groups? No, I don't think so.

A single 3/8 inch group from many, many shot? Yeah, I believe it. Sometimes the fliers go into the group.

[gewehrfreund]

It's certainly possible from a high-end match/target rifle with expensive ammunition and an expensive target scope.

That said, I lost respect for Scovill a long time ago, and this doesn't help at all. . .

[45 2.1]

If you don't think so, then that's your opinion. It does not change things that have already been done. It is certainly possible as some of the old Savage target rifles as well as the Win M52 did do that with quality ammo..... unlike some of the junk 22 ammo we have today. You guys need to spend some time with Paco's Accurizer swage die and see what you can do.

[wvmanchu]

I have two Anschutz .22 rifles a sporter and a target rifle that I believe are both capable of that kind of group in the right conditions. However those conditions don't include my eyes on sights or my finger on the trigger.

[NSB]

The probability of dynamiting a stack of logs and winding up with a shack isn't zero.

Consistent 3/8 inch groups? No, I don't think so.

A single 3/8 inch group from many, many shot? Yeah, I believe it. Sometimes the fliers go into the group.

The answer I was going to give. Statistically, anything is possible. Likely? Not very. I once shot 9x10 shootoff chickens at 100yds with an iron sighted Buckmark Silhouette pistol with iron sights. They were NRA rifle chickens! This was at a large match and there were a lot of witnesses. Could I do it again on demand? Not likely. It was a statistacal anomoly. The gun shot good but not that good. Anything can happen once.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Shoot 500 rounds, 5 at a time with almost any .22, you will probably get at least one 3/8" group.

[flounderman]

The ammunition available today isn't that good. Years ago I had a 40x, with a 20 power that would shoot better than 3/8th groups on a still day at 100 yards. EZ Xs, and the Winchester MK IIIs, and a fly walking across the target was a big target. Just left a bloody hole in the paper. The old greasy experts, would shoot about as good as the target ammo. Once the old Winchester ammunition was gone, I never found anything anywhere close to it.

[john hayslip]

My first rifle I bought was a used win 69A back in 53. It now has a scope on it.. On a windless day it quite capable of that type group ---with the correct ammunition. There is no rifle more finicky than the 22LR in what type ammo it likes. I have a Marlin 790 (I think) semi that will do that well with CCI mini mag if I set the Tasco variable scope that was on it when I bought it to 14 power .

[Reg]

Many and I do mean many years ago on a whim I took a shot at a bird flying by with a bow and darned if I didn't hit it. Not sure who was more surprised, me or the bird.
A 3/8" group at 100 yds with any .22 combination--- possible-- yes--- repeatable on a regular basis, NO.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Now were talkin' 100 yards not 50. and with a 4x Simmons scope.

My Mauser .22 will go that good at 50 yds. but not at 100. Too much happens in those last 50 yards.

I guess anything is possible. But the fly in the oinkment is why would he be testing .22LR ammo at 100 yards in the first place? Most writers would only shoot .22's at 50 yds. Bullseye matches for .22's are 50 yds aren't they?

I will have to inquire to the magazine.

Randy

[ajjohns]

You'll have to read the article. He went on to say that they didn't do much target shooting ever and mostly was at "stuff". I could never say? But I've read his "stuff" for quite a few years and a lot has gotta be bs? Makes good reading I guess. A lot of so called reloading tests he's worked hard to come up with I thought was funny to read the exact same stuff outa Lyman manuals from the 50's. Again, I wasn't there, can't say.

[W.R.Buchanan]

After reading Calamity Jake's thread about his CZ rifle and the group he showed which is less than 3/8" at 50 I guess this is more possible than I thought.

If I could buy some .22LR's somewhere I'd go to the range and see what is possible with the Mauser now. New ammo and better shooting techniques might yield some amazing results.

When I installed the Weaver K4 scope on my gun back in 1978 I sighted in dead on at 75 yards and put 10 shots thru a quarter sized group. Quarters are .955 in Dia. so we'll say 1" at 75yds.

My gun was made in 1929 and the barrel is 26" and tapers from 1-1/8' to 5/8 at the muzzle. It is pristine and has been for my entire adult life. It seemed to prefer standard velocity .22lr's at the time but I have shot CCI Mini-Mags at 1225fps almost exclusively for the last 20 years.

I shoot Silhouette with the gun once a month with the scope removed an using the stock Iron Sights. Shot 29/40 two weeks ago.

Point is if any gun will do it this one should.

Here's pics.

Randy

[brotherdarrell]

I have seen with my very own eyes a sub 1/2" group of 5 shots @ 100 yards. The rifle was a custom barreled 40-x with a high dollar scope, the brand I cannot remember. I believe the shooter, not me, was using Eley black box. If memory serves me there was a breeze around 5 mph over the left shoulder. I had watched him shoot several groups @ 50 yds, trying to find the correct setting for his barrel tuner, that were for all purposes one hole not much larger that a 22 cal bullet. I had heard of this level of shooting, but to see it in person was humbling to say the least.

Though not a direct comparison I have shot enough five shot sub 1/2" groups @ 50 yards with my Brno model 4 with aperture sights using CCI standard velocity that I can't help but wonder how it would do scoped with quality target ammo. A different shooter wouldn't hurt either, LOL.

Is 3/8" five shot groups at 100 yards possible? Yes, but the correct rifle, ammo and shooter is needed.

[45 2.1]

My Mauser .22 will go that good at 50 yds. but not at 100. Too much happens in those last 50 yards.

I guess anything is possible. But the fly in the oinkment is why would he be testing .22LR ammo at 100 yards in the first place?

Randy

There are quite a few of those Mauser trainers out there. I've had several of them. Back 30 years ago when I had really good eyes and still had some of the old Canuck 22 ammo, those trainers would give 3/4" groups at 100 yards most all of the time. I never scoped one of them either, but at one time I did have a Mauser bull barreled target rifle that I scoped (and I wish I still had it) that would do the mentioned group at 100 yards with Remington yellow jackets. Just fabulous what those yellow jackets did to blackbirds with it. That rifle of yours has 200 meter sights on it....... did you ever try them out? Some of the foreign rifles have tangent sights that go further out. 22's are a lot of fun (with a spotter or a dusty dirt field) at 300 to 500 yards.

You also need to check the 22 rim fire benchrest matches that are held.

[jcwit]

I attended the NRA Metric National Matches held a few weeks ago. There was a fellow there with a Swiss Bleiker .22 match rifle. IIRC the cost from the Swiss seller was 6 to 8 thousand bucks for just the barreled action with a $500 fee to get it here into the U.S. Have no idea as to how it shot as I was busy with range duties, but I would imagine it was more than capable of extreme accuracy, whether at 25 meters, 50 meters or 100 meters.

Ammunition used by these folks was the high end stuff selling conservatively for $15/$20 a box of 50 rounds. Yes, good target ammo is still available, its not something that got left back in the 50/60's.

[country gent]

One group on one day is a fluke same group all day over several weeks time is accuracy. A lot of writers shoot a very few groups with each ammo load combination on a given day and call it good

[Doc Highwall]

Yes it is possible for 5 shots at 100 yards with good ammo that a gun has been tuned for along with a shooter that knows what their doing.