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Thread: Muzzleloader bullets

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

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    Muzzleloader bullets

    What bullets are you all casting for your modern muzzleloader? I was just wondering if you guys have found something that works good in a sabot for 50cal.

    I figure with the sabot you could cast a pretty soft bullet that would give you a little expansion.

  2. #2
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    I'm still playing with Lee reals, trying to match the accuracy I got from powerbelts. Haven't got there yet but having lots of fun and shooting more. I may be in the minority but never cared for sabots as much as full bore slugs. And my next big hunt will be CO. Elk, no sabots, scopes or pellet powder.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockky View Post
    What bullets are you all casting for your modern muzzleloader? I was just wondering if you guys have found something that works good in a sabot for 50cal.

    I figure with the sabot you could cast a pretty soft bullet that would give you a little expansion.
    You mean like paper patched lead? Probably you should expect a lot of expansion.

    Hard to answer your question though without the dimensions you toy with. Bore/Groove/Sabot etc....
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    I have a cheap inline, I think it's a Traditions, one of the mass produced ones sold in places like Wal Mart. Only change I made was to change the nipple out to use musket caps. The rifle isn't a tack driver with any bullet, but it's passably accurate for deer hunting with any saboted bullet I've shot in it. I've shot the RCBS 250 grain Kieth bullet and their 225 grain SWC as well. I also shot a lot of jacketed .44 bullets in it at one time. This year, I'm going to try a 300 grain SWC I got a mold for a while back and see how that works.

    I've killed quite a few deer with a Hawken and the Lyman plains bullet. That combination works well. Someday, I want to try full diameter slugs like that in the inline and see how it works.

  5. #5
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    In one of my 50 cal muzzleloaders I use MMP sabots with a 429 cast SWC. In all the others and the 45's I prefer to use patched round ball which IMHO are better for deer. I use the sabot when I am hunting out in the desert for mule deer where long range shots are the norm. I no longer do much elk hunting but I used to use the sabots and the 429 SWC for them as well. Whether PRB or sabot and either deer or elk, my load was 78 gr of FFF Goex.

  6. #6
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    I too cast with the Lee REAL in .50 cal for .50 cal rifle. Fun to shoot but haven't used it hunting yet.

  7. #7
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    LEE 452-300GC for my handi rifle, in a barnes boat tail sabot (call them and you can buy them direct). I forget if its a TMZ or TEZ sabot, but it's the yellow boattail one.

    I shoot them as cast without the gas check. Accuracy at 50 yards is astounding for a cheap rifle. Havent shot at paper much at 100 yards, but keeping it on a 12" steel offhand is a piece of cake.

    Also, the gun doesn't care much about casting quality, no lube required, etc. So if you have the mold and shoot them in your 45, any that are "rejects" for whatever reason shoot GREAT in the inline. wrinkles, malformed base, flashing, whatever is going on with your mold, it's all gravy after the sabot.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Baron von Trollwhack's Avatar
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    Some time back one could buy black 50 caliber sabots for both 44 and 45 diameter pistol bullets. I had goodluck setting up some of the Knight and other blister pak guns to shoot soft cast bullets with both good accuracy and deer killing authority. BLACK POWDER load work ups only, FFFg, sabots greasy finger lubed for easier loading and fouling control. Longest shot kill info that came back to me was 185 yards by a scoped rifle. Search for sabots, they are out there for good prices. Clean the rifle as if a M/L, preserve that bore and have a pristine flash channel.

    I have a great looking CVA, I'm soon to try, although I have always been a traditional flint shooter.

    Good shooting. BvT
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    Boolit Master OnHoPr's Avatar
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    I use a Lee 240 gr round nose flat base 66/33 Pb/WW with 120 gr of Pdex select with harvester sabots. Seems to do pretty good. Not to much meat damage but expands on soft tissue and the boolit holds up with those type of powder charges.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by nagantguy View Post
    I'm still playing with Lee reals, trying to match the accuracy I got from powerbelts. Haven't got there yet but having lots of fun and shooting more. I may be in the minority but never cared for sabots as much as full bore slugs. And my next big hunt will be CO. Elk, no sabots, scopes or pellet powder.
    I am using the Reals also and found that an over powder wad increased accuracy 10 fold. Try some with Ox-Yoke wonder wads And 90 gr. FFG or Pyrodex RS.
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  11. #11
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    I used the Lyman Gould HP designs for 45-70. Cast from pure lead, size to .452. With a sabot and a healthy charge of powder they are unreal.

  12. #12
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    We have been using lee 240 44cal boolits in sabots for 50 cal with 80 gr bp. All pass through but left dead deer behind. Want to use REAL boolits but not confident in accuracy yet with them. All our deer were taken avg of 150 yards.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by quilbilly View Post
    In one of my 50 cal muzzleloaders I use MMP sabots with a 429 cast SWC. In all the others and the 45's I prefer to use patched round ball which IMHO are better for deer. I use the sabot when I am hunting out in the desert for mule deer where long range shots are the norm. I no longer do much elk hunting but I used to use the sabots and the 429 SWC for them as well. Whether PRB or sabot and either deer or elk, my load was 78 gr of FFF Goex.
    Quilbilly, what is the barrel twist in your 50 cal muzzleloader. Mine is 60" per revolution and I wonder if sabots or any kind of bullet will stabilize?

  14. #14
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    any of you guys ever use PRB in a fast twist? It should work as long as I shoot it slow enough, yes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiterabbit View Post
    any of you guys ever use PRB in a fast twist? It should work as long as I shoot it slow enough, yes?
    I'll have to get back to you on that. I shot a few patched round balls from my new CVA at a plate at 50 yards. I have to shoot some at paper and see how they're grouping and where they hit compared to the scope.
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  16. #16
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    I just zeroed one of the rifles I'll use during our muzzle loader season here in a month and a half yesterday. It's a bottom rung inline, but acceptably accurate for deer hunting. I stepped up from the light load I was using to a nominally 300 grain SWC from a Lyman mold I bought on here and 100 grains of 777. Decent accuracy and that bullet looks like a freight train. I think it'll make venison this year.

  17. #17
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    I believe the twist in my Greyhawk t/c is 1/48 and my White Mtn Carbine t/c is 1/28. The Greyhawk accuracy is about 4" at 100 yds while the carbine is under 2" at 100 when my eyes are having a good day and both with sabots. Both are with standard iron sights since scopes are not legal for ML hunting in this state. Both group around 3-4" at 100 with prb.

  18. #18
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    how much powder do you put in the 1/28? (with PRB)

  19. #19
    Boolit Master newton's Avatar
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    Whiterabbit, you can shoot prb out of a 1:28, but no matter the load accuracy is not going to be there past 50-75 yards. I used to plink all the time with prb in my inline and at 50 yards it was very accurate. So I moved out to 100 with the scope on and it would hit hi, low, left, and right, and you never knew which way it was going to go.

    prb do not have the forward "line"(for lack of a better word, maybe one day I'll know the correct terminology) to follow and stabilize on. They are as wide as they are long.

    So when they move further and further from their starting point they start to wonder around because there is nothing "directing" them in a singular direction.

    You also find this happening with the Lee REAL's. But the issue with them is contact area is minimal and any disturbance of it causes the "line" to be pointed in another direction the further from the starting point. Most often it comes from gas cutting, which is why the wads over the powder help out tremendously.

    This is also why sabots work so well, at least in the fast twist rifles. Their contact area with the bore/grooves is significant. Almost like a normal jacketed bullet in a center fire rifle. But their plasticity allows them to be shoved down the bore unlike a jacketed bullet would be able to.

    This contact area of the sabot is what is needed to stabilize the bullet.

    It all starts to make sense if you pretend your able to go inside the barrel of a gun and think about the explosion that takes place, the force on the back side of a bullet, and how the barrel cuts into the bullet, etc. Think about the different relationships they all play on each other.

    As far as the OP is concerned, not sure if your wanting only to use something in a sabot, but if not there are a lot of full size conicals that work great in an modern fast twist inline. They are heavier than a saboted bullet, and have a little more drop to them, but at "normal" ML ranges they are quite comparable and very practical.

    I read more and more of guys trying to get the best bullet for their muzzle loader out there and there are some that sure are dandies. But those stinking bullets/sabots run upwards of over a $1 a piece! Good night! Then throw in your powder and walla, you have just about made up a round that is more expensive than most rifle rounds.

  20. #20
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    I would use round balls for plinking or black powder rendezvous but would like to know if a 60" twist would stabilize a hunting bullet either bare, sabotted or paper patched.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check