.45ACP recoil spring??

[mikeym1a]

I hope this is in the right forum.

I have an Auto Ordnance 1911a1. This gun is stock, as it came out of the box. The load I selected when I first started shooting is now considered 'enthusiastic'. Where might I get a slightly stiffer recoil spring? And would one of the polymer recoil buffers be advisable? The gun shoots fine with this load, and I am reluctant to change what works, but, I want to treat it well.

Thanks for any advice.

mike

[w5pv]

Midway,Brownells.Midsouth,CheaperThan Dirt,Local gunsmiths

[Hawkeye45]

Mike,
Brownells has a recoil spring pack for the 1911 that has several power ratings. I have used them for years and would not be without them. I mark the power rating with different colored nail polish on a few coils on each end.

Mr. Ed

[littlejack]

Mike:
I am in no way an expert on the Model 1911 pistol. BUT,
It has been stated by many of the members here that it is best to shoot ones 1911 with the JMB designed/factory/standard
weight spring. The reason? If you change the spring weight to a heavier spring, the slide can and will batter the frame going
forward back into battery position. This makes perfect sense to me.
I do on occasion shoot some heavy 260 grain loads, but nothing is really gained. If the 230 grain boolits at 850-900 fps second
will not stop what you are trying to stop, I would not bet my life on one of the heavier boolits doing the job.
There has also been a couple of negative reports about the recoil buffers.
Stick with JMB's design.
Jack

[DougGuy]

If it cycles, why does it need a stiffer spring?

I can't agree with the slide battering the frame going forward into battery. The only thing that gets beat are the barrel lugs and the slide stop. Besides that, Colt created the Commander, and the Officer's model by shortening the slide, and compensating with a much heavier spring and they don't suffer from the stiff spring and those slides travel at a MUCH faster rate than the government model. I have used shok buffs also with one out of a couple hundred got turned sideways and had a problem with it rubbing against the slide rail. I like them for 1911.

An old gunny taught me how to pick out a recoil spring by dbl tapping. When the follow up round groups right in there with the first shot, you got it right.

[Char-Gar]

The standard recoil spring is 16 pounds. You can go as heavy as 18 pounds, but after that other issues come to the front and other modifications need to be made to compensate.

I use nothing but 16 and 18 pounds springs in my 1911 pistols. If I had one to choose, it would be the standard 16 pound.

I have tried various recoil buffers over the years and have not found any to my liking. They too cause more problems than they solve.

The original Browning design is very reliable and the pistols long lived. Folks make lots of money making and selling stuff you don't need for these pistols. Others folks make lots of money writing about these things and trying to get you to think you really need them.

[Hunter]

Stick with a 16 pound Wolff recoil spring and stay away from shock buffers. A correctly sprung 1911 does not need a shock buffer and they can be problematic as they begin to break up with usage.

[Outpost75]

Agree, 16-lb. spring is GI standard. 18-lb. may give a bit longer life with alot if hardball and IPSC loads, but above that you nedd tomake other mods to gun which are not helpful long term.

[35remington]

Small radius firing pin stop is the best solution. The original ordinance spec for 1911 spring rates was closer to 14.5 pounds, factually speaking.

What DougGuy is forgetting is the barrel lug feet. They arrest the momentum of the slide and barrel as it returns forward. And where the nonsensical part of comparing Commander spring rates to Government model spring rates occurs is slide momentum. It is the momentum of the slide that strips the round out of the magazine and drives it into battery, and the lighter slide of the Commander has less momentum, thus needs a heavier spring to drive the round home. This higher spring rate does not make the Commander slide harder on the impact areas. Their lesser momentum balances the higher spring rate. The Officers and Commander slides bleed more momentum in the feeding cycle than the Government model does.

Springing a heavier, high momentum Government size slide with a heavy spring is more damaging than running a Commander with an equivalent or even heavier spring in terms of momentum that must be arrested going into battery.

So the spring rate differences are primarily to compensate for the lower momentum of the lighter slides to ensure reliable stripping of the feeding round and return to battery.

The higher spring rate of the Commander has little to do with the impact the barrel lug feet, slide stop hole in the frame and other areas see. The lighter slide momentum compensates.

The other thing that has been forgotten is that the Commander and Officers have less run up before the breechface hits the feeding round on the return stroke of the slide......so have less time to gain momentum, and a lighter slide to make that momentum with. So this is the other reason for the heavier spring in the shortie guns. Jack the slide open to see the greater slide travel before breechface impact with the feeding round in the bigger 1911. Very obvious.

Don't make the mistake of springing a 1911 at a rate it does not need.

[DougGuy]

What DougGuy is forgetting is the barrel lug feet. They arrest the momentum of the slide and barrel as it returns forward.

That's the part I was referring to, not the lugs on top of the barrel as the feet contact the slide stop pin to halt the forward movement of the slide. There is no part of the frame that is battered when it goes forward into battery. That is the part of the post above mine that I was addressing.

[35remington]

Great.

Just realize that comparing Commander and Officers spring rates to Goverment model spring rates and suggesting they punish this area of the barrel lug feet more due to a higher spring rate is not a good argument to make. The lighter slide mass and shorter runup for acceleration of these models is the reason why. The Government model strikes this area harder, and a heavy spring in a Goverment model, as here, is a bad idea for that reason.

[DougGuy]

Great.

Just realize that comparing Commander and Officers spring rates to Goverment model spring rates and suggesting they punish this area of the barrel lug feet more due to a higher spring rate is not a good argument to make.

Let me further clarify.. My post was in response to littlejack's post (#14) where he states the frame can be battered by going forward into battery with a heavier spring. And I cited examples of Colt doing just that, with the Commander and Officer's models, and they don't batter the frame, because the barrel lugs (feet) and slide stop pin was what absorbed the momentum as the gun goes into battery, not the frame.

[35remington]

Great.

But the Commander and Officers batter less. Quoting you, "they don't suffer from the stiff spring." The implication, from your words, is the spring don't matter that much in terms of damage to the pistol.

More correctly.....they don't suffer because their slides are light and the runup short. Spring has much less to do with it, so let's delete that from consideration. Your post seemed to make the idea of spring rate moot, which it most assuredly is not in the OP's pistol.

[DougGuy]

Exactly.. I wasn't arguing at all, it just got perceived differently than what I meant at first.. Back to my first sentence in the first reply, "If it cycles, why does it need a stiffer spring?"

[35remington]

Understood completely. I getcha.

My point is that we need to leave the Commander and Officer's out of the discussion. They struggle to maintain sufficient slide momentum for cycling despite different spring rates and are a different animal than a Government.

[KCSO]

Rant ON

DO NOT put in a rubber buffer! They will eventually come apart and tie up the gun, this will only happen when you need the gun the most. If you insist on a rubber baby buggy bumper take it OUT before you leave the range or use it only on a target gun that you can afford to lose points with. There is no problem with putting in an 18 pound spring if you feel you need it, but if you change out the 16's when they get weak you will accomplish the same objective. WAY too many 1911 IMPROVMENTS aren't suited for a duty or carry gun and just mess up the works. Guide rods, extended ambi this and thats adjustable sights ect are not needed. On the street you aren't shooting for points and you want power and reliability not doo dads. Samo Samo with magazines, get metal mags with welded bottoms for real using.

[jakharath]

I change out my 16# springs when the slide starts feeling sloppy. Can't really explain but it doesn't feel right. If I'd keep track of how many rounds go thru the gun I would change them every 3 to 4K rounds.

[TCLouis]

Mikeym1a et al.

I recently came into an unfired Auto Ordnance 1911 with a note on the box saying trigger is 4.5#. Knowing little or nothing about this or any 1911 45 Semi, did you have any troubles with feeding with yours? I have been sitting on this thing since last fall trying to decide what to do with it.

As with anything I shoot, it has to shoot cast to make me happy and over the years I have noted that some 1911s do not like feeding cast without a bit of fiddling.

If I wanted to do much fiddling with a gun, it would be making a performer out of a wheel gun or bolt gun.

[Char-Gar]

Unless the handgun is seriously defective, a 1911 design pistol will feed cast bullets with ease. IF...IF...IF..you chose a bullet that was designed right from the start. A good 230 grain round nose, or a 200-215 grain SWC like Hensley and Gibbs 68 or Lyman 452460 will feed in a box stock pistol.

The 1911 pistol is a hundred years old and was designed right in 1911. They are not finicky about ammo that was designed for the original pistol. When folks try to improve on the original Browning pistol and/or start to play games with the ammo, is when people start to have problems.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Interesting! Like the U.S.Constitution, the further you get away from the original article the more problems you have! John Browning did know what he was doing and almost 98% of auto pistols today are a variation on it!

I use a stock spring,NO buffer,and H&G clone #68 boolits,no problems!