extra heavy 410 load.

[turbo1889]

I haven't dealt with the Federal offering but I've shot and cut open the Winchester 5@OOO loads and they don't use any padding at all, just five balls of relatively soft lead stacked on top of each other on top of an over-powder wad. The top ball stays round but the rest get squashed down in the barrel and the bottom 2 or 3 balls turn into squatty cylinder shaped chunks of lead. I have also used the S&B 5@OO loads and those pattern a little better and don't squash quite as bad because they balls they use are made from harder lead (but still not as hard as WW alloy) but the bottom pellet or two on those loads gets squashed down too because they still aren't hard enough and don't use sufficient padding.

The best commercial load of 410 buckshot I have ever seen were some old European paper shells I ran across with Latin looking markings on them that had four big balls in them that were 0.38" diameter and were copper coated with very thick coating that you had to whittle on for a while with a pen knife in order to expose the lead core. They were also buffered with what looked like very finely shredded cardboard that was packed in-between the balls. I do now know when or where they were made but those loads were good loads that patterned really tight and all the recovered balls were still all round shaped with minimal distortion.

[nanuk]

I have an article somewhere (NRA handloading book?) about a 410 load of 6 .375 balls... can't remember the specifics, but IIRC, they used a paper tube for a sabot.

I'll have to dig for that article.

[SSGOldfart]

I'm kinda wondering way one needs more than 3 or 5 balls? Maybe they need a 41 caliber

[Smithy]

OK Folks and now for something similar, but not necessarily completely different????? I also have been working up tooling for a HD type of mess around 410 load. I use 00 buck cast in a Lee gang mold and use them solely for the lead core they become. I then use a Corbin swaging die to make basically cylinders of lead with each running right around 52 grains each. The cylinder has a recessed base that allows me to use a cupped card wad under each of the three "cylinders" used in my load. These all tuck quite nicely into a Ballistic Products 410 plastic wad. The plastic cup is shortened to match the height of the three projectiles and topped with a nitro card wad. Over that I have a CH swaged 44 mag bullet made with a spent 40 S&W cartridge as the jacket material. After building the bullet it is then further reduced in diameter to .423 or just barely snug in the inside of a plastic 410 case. The rim of this bullet is still very much there and in one piece and it forms the location that I "crimp" the plastic hull into the rim groove. Sounds kinda complicated, but it really isn't, just time consuming. (what else does an old retired fart have to do, right?) The plastic hulls "case mouth" goes about .4" beyond the crimp area so the "bullet" is well supported by the plastic hull and the amount of plastic that goes into the rim of the bullet (the crimp) is enough to hang onto everything even though there is a bit of pressure required to get it all in there. NOT over crimped by any stretch since a similarly crimped bullet into just the tube of a 410 hull can be poked out with hand pressure and a pencil.

So, recapping? I have a 410 plastic hull with a BP 410 wad shortened to equal it's three cylinder bullets and their mini card wads, topped with a nitro card separating the plastic wad column and the forward most projectile a .423 diameter round nose jacketed bullet crimped through the plastic hull at the bullet's rim groove. Sheeshhhh..... Now I just don't know a powder nor a starting amount of the unknown powder.

The only powder I currently have is some Lil Gun that I was using for target loads, but I think that might be a bit faster burning than I'd want. Any advice on that one. P.S. Sorry to the OP if this is a thread steal (is it???) I just figured that where I'm going is close to the ballpark of this thread. Smithy.

[Biggfoot44]

All interesting .

I recently aquired a Mossberg 500E , and am intrigued with the buckshot possibilities .

Indeed finding information on the internet with testing from revolvers that is enlightening . The best penetration seems to come from the Federal 4 ball loading using plated buckshot . Indeed the W-W loads with soft buckshot shows major deformation , to the point of only about half the penetration of Federal's plated .

Don't have anything to share yet , but forsee plated shot and buffering as the way to proceede.

I could see going with only 4 balls , if able to get better patterns, and rounder balls on target

[Smithy]

Thanks Bigfoot44 for the update. Since my first post I've been dabbling with my multi swaged cylinders (after all I have the Corbin die, right?). I found a source for machined? washers. Or lets say, not the average variety store brand stamped type, but ones held to specific and consistent dimensions. Just shy of the bullet(swaged cylinder) diameter and with a very small through hole for the ID. What I'm going to try is using cast 000 buck pellets as my "core" ingredients (4 total) each separated with one of these thin washers. The round nature of the 000 buck and the center holes of the washers along with their brass construction should allow me to cast an elongated cylinder of a tumbling? four pellet load. I just don't know yet if it would separate during flight or if it'd make it to the target before coming apart to it's four constituent pellets? I'll update when I get further along. I see it possibly as a means to keep a really tight pattern especially for the closer ranges? Smithy.

[Apocalypse]

I am quite interested in this idea. The PDX ammo is similar and seems quite effective through my Raging Judge 6". Would be great to be able to replicate without the $2.50 (CAD) each cost.

[bikerbeans]

I am loading four 0.375" round balls in new 3" fio hulls. Still a work in prograss but getting close. I am shooting these from a 500e with fixed FC. The RBs are just under choke diameter.

Things i found to improve grouping.

Tumble round balls

Heat treat them, harder the better.

Use buffer.

Don't push them too fast, 1100 to 1200 fps.

I will post details once i find The Load.

BB

[BAGTIC]

What would that load be used for? At what range?

If for something as basic as a home defense load the problem could be solved by substituting cylinders for balls.

[Smithy]

What would that load be used for? At what range?

If for something as basic as a home defense load the problem could be solved by substituting cylinders for balls.

That's exactly what I've been doing with my Corbin .340 diameter swage die. That diameter allows the cylinders to fit snugly inside the plastic wad fingers of my BP wads I'm using. I'ts very tedious to swage four cylinders per load so my last post was that I'm trying to have a "frangible" set of four cylinders all swaged at the same time. One swage pull per load type of thing.

[Minerat]

I just loaded 4 - 0 buck in some WW 2.5 with ww410, 15.5gr Imr 4227, an over shot card and a star crimp as a lark. I was loading some 7-1/5 shot for my grandson to burn and saw the 0 buck I just cast from a recent GB and decided to give it a try. The 4 - 0 buck weighed 198 gr just shy of 1/2 oz.

[Tackleberry41]

The converted 9.3x74r cases can fit 5 .395 ball with room left over. Will probably depend on the velocity how much deformation there is. The few I messed with 4 .395 ball made a cloverleaf hole in the target.

[Markopolo]

OK Folks and now for something similar, but not necessarily completely different????? I also have been working up tooling for a HD type of mess around 410 load. I use 00 buck cast in a Lee gang mold and use them solely for the lead core they become. I then use a Corbin swaging die to make basically cylinders of lead with each running right around 52 grains each. The cylinder has a recessed base that allows me to use a cupped card wad under each of the three "cylinders" used in my load. These all tuck quite nicely into a Ballistic Products 410 plastic wad. The plastic cup is shortened to match the height of the three projectiles and topped with a nitro card wad. Over that I have a CH swaged 44 mag bullet made with a spent 40 S&W cartridge as the jacket material. After building the bullet it is then further reduced in diameter to .423 or just barely snug in the inside of a plastic 410 case. The rim of this bullet is still very much there and in one piece and it forms the location that I "crimp" the plastic hull into the rim groove. Sounds kinda complicated, but it really isn't, just time consuming. (what else does an old retired fart have to do, right?) The plastic hulls "case mouth" goes about .4" beyond the crimp area so the "bullet" is well supported by the plastic hull and the amount of plastic that goes into the rim of the bullet (the crimp) is enough to hang onto everything even though there is a bit of pressure required to get it all in there. NOT over crimped by any stretch since a similarly crimped bullet into just the tube of a 410 hull can be poked out with hand pressure and a pencil.

So, recapping? I have a 410 plastic hull with a BP 410 wad shortened to equal it's three cylinder bullets and their mini card wads, topped with a nitro card separating the plastic wad column and the forward most projectile a .423 diameter round nose jacketed bullet crimped through the plastic hull at the bullet's rim groove. Sheeshhhh..... Now I just don't know a powder nor a starting amount of the unknown powder.

The only powder I currently have is some Lil Gun that I was using for target loads, but I think that might be a bit faster burning than I'd want. Any advice on that one. P.S. Sorry to the OP if this is a thread steal (is it???) I just figured that where I'm going is close to the ballpark of this thread. Smithy.

Let’s see some pic’s of your method and finished product.. sounds very interesting....

Marko