Wiping vs Blow tubing

[ryan28]

Another question now that I have a load that shoots well.
45-70 69 gr Goex 2f. 510 grain creedmoor out on the lands, dgl lube.
Temperature about 80 F and 85% humidity.
5 round groups blow tubing, all under 2 moa at 100 yards.
But when I try wiping, the groups double in size immediately, and I get leading.
Is this a lube issue?

[NickSS]

It probably is a lube issue. When you blow tube the bore retains a coating of lube but the fouling is soft and is pushed out by the next round. When you wipe (depending upon how much you wipe) the lube layer is removed and if your lube is not so good it could lead to leading and inaccuracy. I have tried both with grease grouve bullets and have had about equal groups. As blow tubing is easier I stick to that.

[Guido4198]

Not to disagree with NickSS, but IMHO..there's something more subtle going on. "Wiping" is a pretty generic term. NickSS referred to the issue with his statement: "depends upon how much you wipe". It also depends on what you wipe with..e.g.: are your patches spit-wet, solvent-wet, bone dry?? Or perhaps first wet, 2nd dry ?? In other words..."wiping" brings a LOT of variables into the equation. Having settled many of your other variables, getting the best precision (read: tight groups) from any blackpowder rifle(muzzle or breechloader) is now a matter of fouling control. Each shot needs to see the same bore condition. When I shot muzzleloader competition I had a wiping protocol that I followed religiously between each shot in a 5 rd. relay. Worked great. At least off sandbags..I got those "one-ragged-hole" kind of groups from my Hawken. Of course...offhand in a match...not so much..!!.
When I shoot my Browning BPCR of the bench, wiping is pretty easy, pushing the rod and patch from the chamber out the end of the bore. Makes CONSISTENCY easier to achieve. At 100 yds, 10rds just cut a single big ragged hole. These days, I'm working up a combination for an old 1873 Springfield Trapdoor and wiping CONSISTENTLY isn't quite as easy to do. For THAT rifle, I've been finding that a blowtube CONSISTENTLY applied is giving me better results. It sounds like for whatever reason...for your particular situation, the blowtube is also your way to go.
ENJOY..!!!

[Don McDowell]

Wiping with a grease groove bullet is probably something best left alone unless the temps get particularly high and the the humidity gets low.
Getting a wiping routine that your rifle, bullet and lube can live with takes a bit of time and experimenting.
Nick gave you some excellent advice to work from as did Kenny Wasserburger in your other thread.
But are you absolutely positive the leading is from the wiping, or does it start with the blowtube? Just because a person heaves a given number of breaths down the barrel with a blowtube, doesn't necessarily mean you accomplished anything positive for fouling control.

[john hayslip]

Leading can be caused by many factors but one that comes to mind is a barrel with roughness. There is an outfit called Dyna-Cote that make a ceramic product that coats the bore and fills in much of the roughness. The instructions say to seal it after it's dry by shooting a jacketed bullet through it but I called about doing a front stuffer muzzleloader where one has to use a lead bullet and the individual I talked to said lead is ok that he has used the product on his own muzzleloader. The bottle is around $50 and is supposed to be enough to do four to five guns. available from Brownells. Makes them a lot easier to clean also.

[ryan28]

I did try several different wiping routines, but nothing worked well. And Don, no, I am not positive that the leading started with the wiping as I only shot 3 groups of 5 blow tubing. Might be if I was to shoot a bunch more, accuracy might fall off too.
I have a couple more things I want to try, first a larger expander, and then a different lube, see how it goes.

[CanoeRoller]

I never wipe until I am done with my string of shots. IMO blow tubing introduces fewer variables to the mix, and allows greater consistency. In hot dry conditions, I normally can run 15 to 20 rounds through my Sharps with no noticeable change in accuracy. In cool humid conditions, I can run a much longer string. You might want to try blow tubing and leave wiping until you have eliminated all other variables from your mix.

[Don McDowell]

Your dgl lube is about as good as they come, so I wouldn't mess with that. Might take a look at the least amount of crimp you can get by with, and also see what happens if you eliminate case sizing altogether.
If you haven't already, maybe try a .060 fiber wad under the bullet.

[MikeT]

Hunting accuracy is possible with a blow tube, but target accuracy is only certain with wiping. There are few long range BP shooters that blow tube. So depending what you are trying to do, that will dictate how to control the fouling issues during a match or hunt.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT