Practical Ranges for little 380's?????

[1Shirt]

I have come to the conclusion that for me at least the practical max range (for practice) for me is about 10yds. With my little Ruger LCP, and cast, I can keep all shots on paper, and the majority in the black. For me, that is satisfactory. I am wondering if others shooting the little 9 could advise me if they are shooting at distances further than I have established for myself?
1Shirt!

[texassako]

I shoot a Walther PPK/S, and usually shoot 7 yards and occasionally at 10. I don't think many were designed for shooting much past that.

[Finster101]

7 to 15 yards with my Kel-tec P32. That PPK should be better than that since it has a real trigger.

[MtGun44]

Short sight radius, small sights, small grips, mediocre to worse triggers on most
don't lend to target shooting.

OTOH, my wife has a Sig P238 which has a good trigger, good sights so it does
better than average. Much of the reason she has that one is that she said
that the Keltec P3AT sights and trigger were unacceptable.

Bill

[Outpost75]

I was taught by a WW2 OSS vet, who was an instructor at "the farm" in basic tradecraft for intelligence officers and clandestine operators, that the purpose of a pocket pistol is to neutralize immediate threats to life or to avoid capture, to "shoot and scoot" to create a window for escape.

The admonishment was, "if you stand and fight, you'll never live to shoot'em all!"

If your job is not "combat" but you have a dangerous job to do in a denied area where hostiles are actively looking for you, with the intent that you be captured, drugged, tortured and imprisoned for years until you can be exchanged for an asset allied forces are holding, the rule is that "he who shoots and runs away may live to spy another day...."

We were taught that engagement range was from contact to 10 meters, putting "burst on target", firing instinstinctive point, convulsive grip, double- or triple taps in 1-2 seconds, then breaking off contact to disappear....

A good reference is "Shooting to Live" by Fairbairn, and Bullseyes Don't Shoot Back" by Col. Rex Applegate.

[gcsteve]

The little pocket 380's are certianly not range guns, especially with factory ammo. They can be punishing, and not easy to be accurate with. I practice at about 10 yards. Trying to hit something further out can be dissapointing.

[jimb16]

I practice at 25 yards as well as 10. I figure that if I can keep them on the target at 25 in rapid fire, I'm not likely to waste any at 10!

[Scharfschuetze]

While in LE, I carried a Walther PP in 380 as a back up gun and off duty piece for some time. It was inherently as accurate as my service revolver off of a bench and I often qualified with high scores with it on the department's 7 through 25 yard pistol qualification course. Of course that was back when the eyes were a bit less presbyopic and saw that small front sight clearly. I felt the cartridge/pistol was suspect for power at extended range on bipeds, but it was up to it accuracy wise.

[bowenrd]

Last week I popped a rock chuck with a Sig P238 .380. It was a one shot kill at just under 200 yards (about 197 under).

[freebullet]

Sounds like yer doin great for an lcp. I never could call those speed bumps "sights" & it chewed up my finger after the first mag. I got rid of it because it couldn't handle the lint/dust from daily pocket carry and be reliable. I will have to say my all time favorite 380 pocket pistol would be a Sig p238, notice a trend with that. They ironed out the kinks and they are fantastic. If your doing that well with a lcp I say congrats, I sure couldn't.

[ku4hx]

Seven yards or less. My wife just bought a Walther PPK/S and after 106 rounds, she really likes the gun. But even as a relatively new shooter she recognizes it's basically a "last resort" belly gun.

[randyrat]

My P3AT is absolute torture on my trigger finger with factory ammo. I practice between 5 and 10 yds no sights, instinctive only. I mostly practice with 95 gr over 2.9 grains of Bullseye and that helps ease the slap due to recoil on the front of the finger.
I go back to factory ammo to make sure I'm close
Mine is not a target pistol, it's purpose is to give a window to run if needed to save my life.

If I try real hard, I mean real hard I might be able to hit a barn wall from the inside, my hands are too big for the gun, but I like deep carry and this gun is easy to deep carry.

[fecmech]

I practice on turning targets at a max of 7 yds. Our indoor range has a setting on the timer that allows the targets to turn towards you for 2 seconds and away for 7 seconds. I use 50' targets that have been shot by the .22 guys and hang them backside to me on every other target frame. Starting from a low ready position with the Keltec I can make double tap hits on 2 targets or a single hit on 3 targets in the 2 second time frame pretty consistently. What I've found that helps with the Keltecs is to sand off the mold ridge inside the trigger guard and make it smooth. Also a band aid around your trigger finger will keep it from getting sore. Love the KT's and LCP's, great little pocket guns that you truly forget you are even carrying!

[Rick Hodges]

I have an old OMC(pre AMT) Backup. I usually practice at 15 yds. Awful sights, poor trigger, but the basic weapon is pretty accurate. I can keep all shots on a piece of stationary (5x8") at 25 yds. from a rest. It is a belly gun, for last resort close range work. It is easy to carry, easy to conceal and after you run out of ammo it makes a pretty fair set of brass (stainless) knuckles.

[NoZombies]

My sig P238 is great at 7, 15 and 25 yards. I've never tried anything beyond that, but considering how well it does at those ranges, I suspect it would still be in the black at 50 without a problem.

But the P238 has good sights, a reasonable trigger, and uses a locked breach instead of straight blow back.

[Sensai]

Close, 7 to 10 yards, is all I do with my P3AT. Most of that is just for functional testing to make sure it still works every month or so. I consider a 380 as a "get off me" gun, and only rely on it to gain me some time.

[Outpost75]

Attachment 75239

In my opinion the Colt Pocket Hammerless is the best "pocket pistol" out there in either .32 or .380 caliber. Mine belonged to an old lawman who carried it on the job for many years. Most of the finish is gone, and it is covered with little dings where it banged against the back of his trouser belt buckle, but the pistol is deadly accurate on small game and performs exactly like the pistols written about in American Rifleman back in the 1930s and carried by the SOE and OSS during WW2....

More 7.65 and 9x18 pistols came back as GI souvenirs from the ETO after WW2. I have several which came out of the estates of deceased veterans of our "Greatest Generation." My Walther PP is a postwar police model made in 1963 which had been issued by the Poliezi Bremerhaven and imported by Century Arms a few years back. It is a keeper. The Beretta Tomcat is thrown in to show what a good "mousegun" does. I find the Beretta more accurate, reliable and ergonomicaly correct than the Keltec.


Attachment 75240
The CZ50 is a bargain among current imports. Mine shoots well.

WW2 German Army and postwar police acceptance specifications used into the early 1970s for the 7.65mm and 9mm Kurz pocket pistols allowed a group dispersion of 5 mils, about 2" at 10 meters (33 ft.) or 5" at 25 meters (82 ft.), firing from a test stand.

Speer No. 13 manual states that groups of less than 6" at 25 yards are deemed acceptable for these guns. In my experience the "full sized" polizei pistols having barrels of 10cm (3.9") or longer, such as the Walther PP, are more accurate than the mouseguns having barrels shorter than 3".

In my experience the .32 ACPs tend to be more accurate than a .380 in the same or similar model. I think this is mostly because the .32s have milder recoil and muzzle blast and are just easier and more fun to shoot! Some of the .380s can be nasty little hand biters in a small gun. These are some typical results with .32 Autopistols I have testing cast loads. The better guns do about 4" at 25 yards off sandbags, and if yours produces results like this, you can say with authority that it is better than average.


Attachment 75232Attachment 75233Attachment 75234Attachment 75235Attachment 75236

[novalty]

First thing that popped into my head when I read the question, is how people demonstrate how big a fish they caught.

[H.Callahan]

I've got a '70s era PP in .380. Used it for a lot of years as a second gun and off duty gun when I was in LE. My PP can dominate a 6" plate all day at 25 yards (note I said IT can -- as I have gotten older, I think I would need a 24 yard barrel to hit 6" plate any more! )

[Finster101]

Sounds like yer doin great for an lcp. I never could call those speed bumps "sights" & it chewed up my finger after the first mag. I got rid of it because it couldn't handle the lint/dust from daily pocket carry and be reliable. I will have to say my all time favorite 380 pocket pistol would be a Sig p238, notice a trend with that. They ironed out the kinks and they are fantastic. If your doing that well with a lcp I say congrats, I sure couldn't.

I can't speak for the lcp but my Kel-tec has never failed to go bang even after a month or so of pocket carry. It's hot where I am so it gets a lot of use. I intentionally do not clean it before going to the range, in fact most of time I don't even change the mag as I prefer to shoot up the sweaty ammo just in case and put in fresh ever so often. Main thing I worry about is starting a fire with all the lint in the thing. Hasn't happened yet though even after 4 years of carry.