simple Hi-Tek coating

[Gremlin460]

It is almost impossible to visualize 30,40,50 or more thousand projectiles.

The major issue is we need to be able to gauge, too little, enough, or too much when we coat. Trevor has managed that, and also other coaters as well.
Due to the fact that most of us are geographically remote from each other, it is not a simple case of "Here let me show you".
Another point that makes it difficult for new coaters, is the actual terminology used to describe the process.
Example.
We are told the temp to use. That's is easy, its a solid constant world wide.
We are also told the ratio, also easy to obtain, 10cc is 10cc no matter where you are.
Time, 10mins, again 10 min is 10 min world wide.

Amount of solution to use, 1litre per 60,000 , whoops!! Fail, not that its wrong, its because that is hard to visualize when looking into a bucket of 150-200 casts and trying to divide what you have into 1 ltr then guesstimate how much of a squirt that would be from your squeeze bottle you are vigorously shaking in your other hand.

So to say I got too much coating on the first try, is a fair statement, that's why I said I shall apply 50% less. The ONLY way I can gauge 50% less, is by halfing the amount I squirted into the bucket, visually.

Also bear in mind, the first time I did this , I coated 5000 casts, and because I got it wrong, firstly by temp, next by mixture, I had 5000 useless, unuseable boolits. Hence the remelt pictures from a few weeks ago.

I think success or failure, all comes down to this one point, learning the correct amount to apply per bucket load. Once I have a visual on how much to squirt, for how long, I am sure my resulting product will work and shoot just fine.

[Gremlin460]

Thinking further on my previous post, I shall now start to try and get "real" world measurements into the coating application.

A handful of cast and a 2 second squirt is just about as un-scientific as you can get.
Now I will start coating by weighing the "handful", and start administering the coating via a large syringe or other measurable device.

If I find the 1/2lb of casts that's 12cc of coating (example figures only), then I can start to produce consistant results.

As a side note, I just took another batch out of the oven and they look much smoother and shinier than the last, once cool, I will test and post results.

Sorry to be long winded, but we have fixed limits for everything, except application, and that's what is tripping me and others when we start.

[HI-TEK]

It is almost impossible to visualize 30,40,50 or more thousand projectiles.

The major issue is we need to be able to gauge, too little, enough, or too much when we coat. Trevor has managed that, and also other coaters as well.
Due to the fact that most of us are geographically remote from each other, it is not a simple case of "Here let me show you".
Another point that makes it difficult for new coaters, is the actual terminology used to describe the process.
Example.
We are told the temp to use. That's is easy, its a solid constant world wide.
We are also told the ratio, also easy to obtain, 10cc is 10cc no matter where you are.
Time, 10mins, again 10 min is 10 min world wide.

Amount of solution to use, 1litre per 60,000 , whoops!! Fail, not that its wrong, its because that is hard to visualize when looking into a bucket of 150-200 casts and trying to divide what you have into 1 ltr then guesstimate how much of a squirt that would be from your squeeze bottle you are vigorously shaking in your other hand.

So to say I got too much coating on the first try, is a fair statement, that's why I said I shall apply 50% less. The ONLY way I can gauge 50% less, is by halfing the amount I squirted into the bucket, visually.

Also bear in mind, the first time I did this , I coated 5000 casts, and because I got it wrong, firstly by temp, next by mixture, I had 5000 useless, unuseable boolits. Hence the remelt pictures from a few weeks ago.

I think success or failure, all comes down to this one point, learning the correct amount to apply per bucket load. Once I have a visual on how much to squirt, for how long, I am sure my resulting product will work and shoot just fine.

Gremlin460,

I agree with majority of what you advise.

I had learned over years, that if you have a well diluted mixture, then adding plus or minus a few mls does not significantly use much more coatings, as product is diluted significantly.
In majority, with diluted coating systems, you are adding more solvent which contains some coating.

If you compare using 5:1:5 ratio, it is about 50% of coating in the mix.
Using this mixture at 10 mls per 1000, you use about 5 mls of coating.

If your mixture is 5:1:10, the coating is about 30% in the mix.
If you then use the same volume of 10 mls of this per 1000, you now use 3 mls of coating, and that is significant saving, (about 40%) to coat the same amount of projectiles.

Therefore, the 5:1:10 mix, should cover a much more with using same coating concentrate, and,
all you are using is more solvent, to extend the coating to cover more surface area.

As you have a more diluted coating mixture with 5:1:10, any small errors with volume become less significant, and when considering the number of batches being coated, any plus or minuses will average usage to reasonable reproducibility.

By using a more concentrated coating system, (less solvent) then small volume changes with coating additions end up with using more coatings, and adds to other problems, such as inadequate or prolong drying times, bubbling of non dried film during bake, poorer finished appearance, harder to size, and most importantly ending up being more costly, due to failures caused, and higher coating use.

Really, any learning curve is a good teacher as to which method will produce best results with system that is adopted.

[Ausglock]

5-1-7 mix. 250 9 mm 125 gr bullets get 7 mls of coating. Easy. No rocket science needed.

[Gremlin460]

5-1-7 mix. 250 9 mm 125 gr bullets get 7 mls of coating. Easy. No rocket science needed.

so is that 3.5mls of coating for the first cook and 3.5mls for the second coat, or is it 14 mls total for 2 coats and 21 mls if you decide to go for a 3rd coat?

[Ausglock]

Per coat. Bloody hell, Grem. You really are a QLDer.........

[PodPeople]

I'd like to know how to determine coating volumes for different size boolits. Is there a linear relationship between boolit weight and surface area? If so, a 200 grain boolit would need twice as much coating as a 100 grain boolit. I would think that boolit shape might be a factor, as well as the number of lube grooves. It's been many decades since I studied solid geometry.

[Gremlin460]

I thought the same PodPeople, but opted for the lesser headache route, if I go for CC or Mls per cast weight I think would be close enough. Using your above example 200gn vs 100gn cast there theoretically would be half as many 200 given a set weight, than 100gn, theoretically leaving the same surface area approximately. The operative word being approximately

Trev..
Not from QLD :P
The last batch came out smoother and shiney, passed the wipe and smash test, BUT scratch like hell when I put one in a fired case and pulled it out again.
Possibly too thin a coat now?

[KYCaster]

Geeeezzz.....how difficult do you want to make this?

Lee Precision sells a set of powder dippers with volume in cc's molded right into the handle. .5cc of catalyst, 2.5cc of color and 3.7cc of acetone will coat.....how many boolits?

Don't have Lee dippers? Five 22 LR cases = one 45ACP case. One 22 case full of catalyst, one 45 case full of color, one and a half 45 case full of acetone will coat.....how many boolits?

Please forgive me if this sounds condescending. It ain't rocket surgery. So you waste some boolits and coating....keep good notes and you'll figger it out.

Must be an engineer.
Jerry

[Ausglock]

OK.. The KISS principal.
My mix is 5-1-7.
My trays will hold 250 9mm 125gr bullets. I use 7mls per coat per tray.
My trays will hold 150 45 230gr bullets. I use 7mls per coat per tray.
My trays hold 175 44 200gr bullets. I use 7mls per coat per tray.
My trays hold 200 358 156gr bullets. I use 7mls per coat per tray.

Does anyone besides me see a pattern here?
Why over think the issue to create problems that are really non-existent?
Cast, coat, load & shoot.... life is good and the coating is easy...

[Gremlin460]

I do I do , nearly all your sentances start with MY!!


post script.
Hope you have a sence of humor , because I have.

No matter what issues I am having I still am not giving up, stubborn old bastard that I am.

[Ausglock]

think of it this way.. if 7mls does 250 9mm bullets, work it out from there.
7 divided by 250 = mls per bullet. 0.028mls per bullet for 9mm 125gr.
0.047mls per 45 bullet
etc etc etc..

[kweidner]

I use 5 lbs of alloy in all applications. Like Ausglock this is 250 135gr 9mm, 200 180gr .40 or 175 200gr 45. I have had good repeatable success with this. I use a tsp measurement from a pharmacist. Each time I go to the pharmacy a pick up a couple more as they give em to me free. My coatings average about 30000 per liter but I use 3 coats. Has anyone had success with the accurate 45-230z. Bout to order that mold and was curious if Ausglock or others has good success with it.

[Ausglock]

I'm going to get a 45-230Z in a few weeks.
I am having great results with the 35-168Z.

[Moonman]

Ausglock,

Your Post #1958 is the kind of INFO we newbies to the coating of Boolits can use and is VERY USEFUL.

7ml of 5-1-7 mix is 1.42 teaspoons to many of us in the US, so a SHORT measure of about 1 1/2 teaspoons

should be fine per coating your STATED number of PILLS or about 5 pounds of alloy.

I'll do that on the next batch, I've been using about TWICE THAT MUCH.

I'LL CUT BACK MY AMOUNT AGAIN.

Keep the GREAT INFO coming Trevor.

[Ausglock]

no worries. Glad to help.
When I coat, I dribble the coating out of the mixed pop top bottle. I don't measure.

But, last night I actually measured how much I dribble.
I got some plastic measuring spoons and "dribbled" a normal dribble into a shot glass and then tipped it into the teaspoon measure.

Guess what??? I am dribbling just over 1 1/2 teaspoons. I tried it 3 times and it was close to the same each time.

Out of my pop top mix bottle my dribble is about 1 second.
So (for me) 1 second = 7mls = 1 1/2 teaspoons.
Woohoo... good to go.

[Moonman]

Trevor,

I just coated 22 1/2 pounds of PILLS.

.45 .452 230 grain RN, .38 .358 110 grain SWC, .38 .358 155 grain SWC, .38 145 grain DEWC.

(4) 5 pound batches, (1) 2 1/2 pound, weighed on a food scale,

1 1/2 Teaspoons of 5/1/7 Acetone Coating (7 1/2 ml), 3/4 tsp for the 2 1/2 pound batch.

Spin and Shake in a Plastic bowl, dump into my trays to dry overnight, will bake tomorrow.

This BREVILLE BVO800XL convection oven is just FABULOUS Mate. Bake 380F for 10 minutes.

EASY PEEZY the more we go on, the more we learn, and the better we get.

I like using the GOLD coating.

I plan to play with the GREEN some shortly.

THANKS HI-TEK and Thanks also to Donnie at Bayou Bullets.

[fastfire]

I have read the 30+ pages of this thread, in there somewhere (I can't find it now) the brand of convestion oven that was recomended.
Can someone name the brand?
I got my Hi-Tek package the other day and am about ready to try this.
Thanks

[Moonman]

fastfire,

Breville BVO800XL SMART Convection Oven $250.

Expensive but works very well, It adjusts heat extremely well.

A great oven for this process.

MY OVEN, set on 380F, an Oven Thermometer read about 380F, A Bar-B-Que Digital Probe read 378F,

A Digital Probe from N.O.E. molds read 368F, ALL AT THE SAME TIME. Not too shabby performance.

Cheap ovens have temp control issues, the Breville does not.

[Gremlin460]

short video of what I did today to fix my volume of mixture once and for all. Sorry about the poor quality, was done one handed with a old phone.

http://s881.photobucket.com/user/Gre...tml?sort=3&o=0