simple Hi-Tek coating

[Mozz]

for as long as the previous tray of bullets needs to bake. and temp is warm to the touch.
rest the palm of you hand on the bullets, they should be warm.

Thanks Trevor

[Avenger442]

Joe
I know you have probably answered this before. But how long would you expect the unmixed power to last sitting on the shelf? Under what conditions? My basement is humidity controlled and usually temp is not over 75F or under 40F. And how long would the coating maintain it"s heat shielding ability even if the color wasn't quite right?

Expecting an educated guess since the powder coating has not been around 25 years.

[HI-TEK]

Joe
I know you have probably answered this before. But how long would you expect the unmixed power to last sitting on the shelf? Under what conditions? My basement is humidity controlled and usually temp is not over 75F or under 40F. And how long would the coating maintain it"s heat shielding ability even if the color wasn't quite right?

Expecting an educated guess since the powder coating has not been around 25 years.

Hi Avenger
Good questions.
I am wondering, what prompted the questions?
If kept sealed in a container, out of sunlight, at ambient conditions, the product should last 12 months or more, may be years.
Ausglock, has powder test samples since these were invented, that have sat around for years in jars, and all seem to work.
Essentially, all components are in the product, but because they are not solubilized, they have minimum interaction between components.
What can happen is, that coating powder can pick up moisture, (hygroscopic in nature), and become like soft honeycomb consistency. It should continue to work OK.
Drying the coating afterwards, more care should be exercised in ensuring adequate drying before baking that way it gets rid of any absorbed moisture that was picked up during storage.
Once heat cured and set, the coating is very inert, and should not change with physical properties. The heat cross links all components which are locked in place, so there should be no further changes to the cured coating with storage.
I expect that temperature heat transfer and heat shielding would remain same with aging of the cured coatings.
The coating technology for the powders is similar as for the liquids. The liquids already have all components in an intimate contact, so stability may be not as long as the powdered versions.
Having said that, we have had customers who had solvent based systems, work after years of storage. Some colors appear more stable than others in liquid coating versions.
I hope I answered your questions adequately.

[ioon44]

I keep my unmixed powder in ammo can's in my unheated or AC shop, these are pretty much air tight to stop humidity.

[Avenger442]

Joe
As to what prompted the question. I am not having a specific problem. I was just wondering if the powder sat around for say ten years would the heat shielding ability still be there.

I have the liquid 1035 Gold that was the first coating I bought probably late 2014. I mixed it and used it successfully in 2019. The color was darker but performance was still there as far as keeping lead out of the barrel. I had cast some bullets and was going to use it again and it came to mind that maybe I could get some input on shelf life. I have several powders in different colors that I do not use frequently which have sat around for a shorter length of time because I love that 1035 gold. As you can see I don't cast and coat as many as some here do. Probably no more than a couple thousand per year of all calibers I cast.

It seems based on what you said what I need to do is cast up a lot of bullets and apply the coating then the shelf life is not a factor. Use up all of the coating. For me that is a lot of bullets. Probably have enough lead ingots but the time is a factor.

I recently joined the 9mm crowd so I will be casting and coating for it. Anyone who wants to throw some advice my way please do. I've resisted buying a 9mm for years since I like the big bullets. But finally broke down a bought one.

[Ausglock]

I had a clean out yesterday.
melted down a heap of commercial bullets I got about 13 years ago from a now closed maker.
He used Old Gold Liquid coating back then.
I grabbed a few and wiped and smashed them.... Still good after all these years.

[ioon44]

Joe
As to what prompted the question. I am not having a specific problem. I was just wondering if the powder sat around for say ten years would the heat shielding ability still be there.

I have the liquid 1035 Gold that was the first coating I bought probably late 2014. I mixed it and used it successfully in 2019. The color was darker but performance was still there as far as keeping lead out of the barrel. I had cast some bullets and was going to use it again and it came to mind that maybe I could get some input on shelf life. I have several powders in different colors that I do not use frequently which have sat around for a shorter length of time because I love that 1035 gold. As you can see I don't cast and coat as many as some here do. Probably no more than a couple thousand per year of all calibers I cast.

It seems based on what you said what I need to do is cast up a lot of bullets and apply the coating then the shelf life is not a factor. Use up all of the coating. For me that is a lot of bullets. Probably have enough lead ingots but the time is a factor.

I recently joined the 9mm crowd so I will be casting and coating for it. Anyone who wants to throw some advice my way please do. I've resisted buying a 9mm for years since I like the big bullets. But finally broke down a bought one.

I have loaded 9 mm for a lot of years, some things I recommend is making sure the loading dies are not swagging the bullet too much after loading, even different brands of brass can have a large effect on bullet swagging.

I size my 9 mm bullets .002" to .003" over my barrel and I use two coats of Hi-Tek, I use mostly 6-2-92 alloy but I have been testing some with COWW alloy in heaver bulets 140 gr and 160 gr. I use my barrel and not a case gauge to make sure the rounds will feed with out any jams.

Different guns will have different throats which effect the performance of the cast bullet.

[Ausglock]

I agree... The barrel is the ultimate round check gauge.

[kevin c]

Say Petander (or Joe, or Trevor),

Way back (like 8 months ago) y'all were discussing the use of denatured alcohol (ethanol plus various nasties to prevent imbibing). I'm assuming that was the 190 proof?

[Burnt Fingers]

Say Petander (or Joe, or Trevor),

Way back (like 8 months ago) y'all were discussing the use of denatured alcohol (ethanol plus various nasties to prevent imbibing). I'm assuming that was the 190 proof?

Denatured Alcohol doesn't come in proof. It just is. At least here in the States. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatured_alcohol

[Ausglock]

Metho is Metho......unless you add orange juice then it is Hangover...lol

[kevin c]

Sorry if I didn't use the right terminology. I got thrown by this and other ads when I googled denatured alcohol.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Denatured...=&wl8=&veh=sem

I just want to be sure I use the right stuff. When talking here about denatured alcohol, or metho as Trevor puts it, are we referring to:

Ethanol as the main thing, not isopropyl or methanol alcohol (though I know the latter can be used to make the ethanol undrinkable and undistillable)?

95% by volume ethanol, with roughly 5% water, versus the 70% commonly bought as rubbing alcohol or hand sanitizer, the ridiculously expensive lab reagent grade 99.X%, or the fuel, like Klean Strip brand in the US, which is only up to half ethanol and that or more of methanol.

I ask because I have the stuff in the ad, which has a bit of water in it. I'd like to use it but worry that the water may cause problems.

[HI-TEK]

Sorry if I didn't use the right terminology. I got thrown by this and other ads when I googled denatured alcohol.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Denatured...=&wl8=&veh=sem

I just want to be sure I use the right stuff. When talking here about denatured alcohol, or metho as Trevor puts it, are we referring to:

Ethanol as the main thing, not isopropyl or methanol alcohol (though I know the latter can be used to make the ethanol undrinkable and undistillable)?

95% by volume ethanol, with roughly 5% water, versus the 70% commonly bought as rubbing alcohol or hand sanitizer, and not the ridiculously expensive lab reagent grade 99.X%?

kevin C
The denatured alcohol (known also as Methylated Spirits) can be used, but at low rates. It can be added to Acetone at about 10% by volume. This slows down evaporation rate of Acetone whilst shake coating. The little amount of Water contributed by the Alcohol is OK, and simply, care should be taken to thoroughly dry coating before baking.
Rubbing alcohol is no good, Methanol is no good. The 99%+ Alcohol is expensive, not practical and not needed.
The use of Methanol in Alcohol is now rarely used, as many had been poisoned and or died from the Methanol denaturant. Now, bittering agents and Iso Propanol (amongst others) are used to denature commercially available Alcohols.

[kevin c]

Thank you, Joe. I'll buy the stuff in the hardware store rather than use the 95% stuff on hand.

[HI-TEK]

Thank you, Joe. I'll buy the stuff in the hardware store rather than use the 95% stuff on hand.

Kevin C
You can use the 95% stuff you already have. The new shop stock, in the hardware store, would be also 95%, or close enough.

[kevin c]

So the balance isn't water? I was concerned about drying or adherence problems with the bake.

[HI-TEK]

So the balance isn't water? I was concerned about drying or adherence problems with the bake.

Kevin C
commercial Methylated spirits (95%) has about 5% water as balance.
It is costly to dehydrate 5% of Water to produce 100% alcohol.
100% alcohol, aside from being costly, does not like being dehydrated and will absorb water quickly. That is why it is not practical to use such product.
Adhesion problems mainly arise from first coating not being adequately dried.
Both Acetone and Alcohol absorb moisture. Acetone possibly absorbs water faster, and that is why containers must be sealed well after decanting/use.
If moisture is included from solvents, (and is kept to a minimum) drying first coat well before baking should be OK.

[kevin c]

Thanks, Joe. I think I have a better understanding, now. Much appreciated.

[Tazza]

If you're wanting to use metho to slow down evaporation, can you not just add a few ML of acetone to each batch?

I was having issues with filling out lube grooves, i add 6ml of coating and depending on the day, 1 or 2 ml of acetone. The acetone evaporates as to be expected, it allows the hi-tek to cover everything before the excess acetone evaporates leaving the correct amount to coat.

It works for me.

[Burnt Fingers]

Sorry if I didn't use the right terminology. I got thrown by this and other ads when I googled denatured alcohol.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Denatured...=&wl8=&veh=sem

I just want to be sure I use the right stuff. When talking here about denatured alcohol, or metho as Trevor puts it, are we referring to:

Ethanol as the main thing, not isopropyl or methanol alcohol (though I know the latter can be used to make the ethanol undrinkable and undistillable)?

95% by volume ethanol, with roughly 5% water, versus the 70% commonly bought as rubbing alcohol or hand sanitizer, the ridiculously expensive lab reagent grade 99.X%, or the fuel, like Klean Strip brand in the US, which is only up to half ethanol and that or more of methanol.

I ask because I have the stuff in the ad, which has a bit of water in it. I'd like to use it but worry that the water may cause problems.

That's a crazy stupid price.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-St...SL26/100139444

There ya go.