simple Hi-Tek coating

[Burnt Fingers]

G'day everyone.

I heard that people were having issues with the colour of the TRUBLU. It was going green or brown etc etc..

I asked Joe for a sample of the batch that he sent to the US.
Finally got around to testing the sample today.
Data:
20gms to 100mls Acetone
Coated 6mls to 2.3kg of 135gn RN 9mm bullets.
Both coats baked at 195Deg C for 7:30mins.
Wipe and smash test pass with flying colours.. (flying colours......coloured bullets....pew pew pew.......get it??? LOL)

All my baking irrespective of sample colours is done at 195Deg C for 7:30mins, So nothing special was done for the TRUBLU test.
So. People, Check your temps and bake times.
TRUBLU works as intended.
Have a look.




P.S. They look bloody brilliant out in the daylight... Put a horn on a Jellyfish..

I'm going to lower my cook temp. I've been cooking at 205/400° for eight minutes and the blue has been turning green.

[Ausglock]

The Max temp my oven gets to when set at 195Deg C is 197 at the end of the bake.
The probe in the bullet stays at 195 at the end of the bake.
I am assuming the coating, once crosslinked, is insulating the alloy from the oven temp increase.
But it's only 2 Deg C, So probably means nothing.

[RedlegEd]

The Max temp my oven gets to when set at 195Deg C is 197 at the end of the bake.
The probe in the bullet stays at 195 at the end of the bake.
I am assuming the coating, once crosslinked, is insulating the alloy from the oven temp increase.
But it's only 2 Deg C, So probably means nothing.

Hi Trevor,
Thanks for the instructions and the beautiful "here's what it's supposed to look like" pictures. Unfortunately, I'm left a little confused and unsuccessful. I just tried using your method with my Tru Blu, and wound up with very green bullets, which I understand is a sure sign of over-baking. So my question is, when does the 7:30 start? I have a probe in a bullet, as well as one in the oven chamber. I started the time when the bullet probe hit 195°C (383°F,) and it stayed pretty consistent for the 7:30 minutes. It takes my little oven a while (10-15 minutes) to get to temperature once the door was open and the new bullets put it, so could all that pre-heat time be affecting it? Do you have any suggestions or recommendations? BTW, my bullets passed both the wipe and smash tests, so I know they're good to shoot...I just wanted pretty blue bullets.
Thanks,
Ed

[HI-TEK]

Hi Trevor,
Thanks for the instructions and the beautiful "here's what it's supposed to look like" pictures. Unfortunately, I'm left a little confused and unsuccessful. I just tried using your method with my Tru Blu, and wound up with very green bullets, which I understand is a sure sign of over-baking. So my question is, when does the 7:30 start? I have a probe in a bullet, as well as one in the oven chamber. I started the time when the bullet probe hit 195°C (383°F,) and it stayed pretty consistent for the 7:30 minutes. It takes my little oven a while (10-15 minutes) to get to temperature once the door was open and the new bullets put it, so could all that pre-heat time be affecting it? Do you have any suggestions or recommendations? BTW, my bullets passed both the wipe and smash tests, so I know they're good to shoot...I just wanted pretty blue bullets.
Thanks,
Ed

RedlegEd
I just wanted to put in, my two bobs worth here.
The properly dried coated cast, needs to get to 180C inside oven.
Once it gets to 180C it has to stay there or above for about 2 more minutes.

If I am reading your baking details correctly, you are starting the time in oven, from when the load gets to 195C, and you are holding it there at 195C for another 7:30 minutes longer afterwards. (Am I reading this correctly?)

Ausglock's times as quoted, begins from when he places load into the oven to start baking process.
His oven brings up temperatures very quickly and the load gets to cure conditions ( 180C and onwards ) very quickly.
After load is placed into oven, the time of 7:30 minutes, this is actual time of load that is spent inside the oven to get to correct cure conditions .
After load has spent 7:30 minutes in oven, the load is at 195C and is ready to be removed from oven.

[portersandstouts]

So, I have nothing to add on the True Blue Bullets as I have yet to try them, (maybe this week . Anyway, I do have a few questions for those of you that have been doing this longer then I have. I cast a bunch of 300 blk bullets and coated them with the candy apple red. The bullets are approx 225 grain subsonics. I am posting because of the way the bullets looked when I recovered some out of the berm. (See pics below) It almost looks like the coating came off in the bore... I am scratching my head because they passed the smash and acetone test on all three coats. (1 ML per pound). The pistol rounds I have recovered may show lead where another round impacted them, but they do not show lead anywhere else. What are yalls thoughts??? I have included some pics of the rounds before I shot them as a comparison.

[Ausglock]

redleg.

Are you pre-warming your bullets? Have a look at my drying stand picture. You can see the fan heater that is used to pre-warm the trays next to go into the oven.
My oven has 2 huge wattage elements, so 7:30 is no problem.
The smaller convection benchtop ovens need around 10 to 12 minutes at 195Deg C.

[Ausglock]

Porter....are the loads accurate?
Looks like they are undersize in Dia.......

[RedlegEd]

Gentlemen,
Thanks. I think I now understand. Trevor, yes, I preheated using pretty much the same setup you did. I’ll give it another go to see how they come out.
Regards,
Ed

[portersandstouts]

Thanks for the Reply Ausglock, so to answer your question, no. These were the first cast pills I had shot in this gun and I knocked a soft lead ball through to get a reading and got .3083 that being the case I sized a bunch up at .309 and .310 the 309 were bad, the 310 were not much better. (I am talking 6+ inch groups out of a gun that has given me .70 inch groups at when I do my part.) Since I am newish to the coatings is it normal for rounds that are undersized to look like that? The mold I am using drops at 311, I guess I could load a few without sizing and see how they do.

[RedlegEd]

RedlegEd
I just wanted to put in, my two bobs worth here.
The properly dried coated cast, needs to get to 180C inside oven.
Once it gets to 180C it has to stay there or above for about 2 more minutes.

If I am reading your baking details correctly, you are starting the time in oven, from when the load gets to 195C, and you are holding it there at 195C for another 7:30 minutes longer afterwards. (Am I reading this correctly?)

Ausglock's times as quoted, begins from when he places load into the oven to start baking process.
His oven brings up temperatures very quickly and the load gets to cure conditions ( 180C and onwards ) very quickly.
After load is placed into oven, the time of 7:30 minutes, this is actual time of load that is spent inside the oven to get to correct cure conditions .
After load has spent 7:30 minutes in oven, the load is at 195C and is ready to be removed from oven.

Hi,
Yes, you read that correctly. Okay, another question regarding temperature. I'm guessing that the key is the temperature of the coating itself and not the bullet, correct? So if I put a load into the oven at, say 185°C, and it gets to and stays at that temperature for at least 2 minutes, that should cure the coating regardless of the internal bullet temperature, correct? I don't mean to be nit picky, but it takes a lot longer than that for the bullet to heat through to the oven set temperature. In any event, here's what my Tru Blu came out like...pretty, just not Blue. I'll try again using the advice you and Trevor provided. BTW, the blue stain on my hand is what I was hoping for!!
Thanks again,
Ed

[HI-TEK]

Hi,
Yes, you read that correctly. Okay, another question regarding temperature. I'm guessing that the key is the temperature of the coating itself and not the bullet, correct? So if I put a load into the oven at, say 185°C, and it gets to and stays at that temperature for at least 2 minutes, that should cure the coating regardless of the internal bullet temperature, correct? I don't mean to be nit picky, but it takes a lot longer than that for the bullet to heat through to the oven set temperature. In any event, here's what my Tru Blu came out like...pretty, just not Blue. I'll try again using the advice you and Trevor provided. BTW, the blue stain on my hand is what I was hoping for!!
Thanks again,
Ed

There are a few things to consider.
1.If your oven is not fan forced air circulation and load is close to heating element, you may get radiant heat damage of coating colour.
2. That coated cast must get to 180C to correctly cure coating. If you are using a probe inside a coated cast to measure temperature, that should be your guide with load temperatures.
The coating turning Green tells me that you have exceeded temperatures well above what you thought were the set temperatures.
Posts from Ausglock showed that after 7:30 minutes, his load in oven was taken out, and load was at 195C, and coating remained Blue.
For coating to go green, temperatures may have been much higher than you thought, or as I said, radiant heat from your element damaged coating colour. You really must determine what conditions and times are required for a specific load to work inside your oven.

[RedlegEd]

There are a few things to consider.
1.If your oven is not fan forced air circulation and load is close to heating element, you may get radiant heat damage of coating colour.
2. That coated cast must get to 180C to correctly cure coating. If you are using a probe inside a coated cast to measure temperature, that should be your guide with load temperatures.
The coating turning Green tells me that you have exceeded temperatures well above what you thought were the set temperatures.
Posts from Ausglock showed that after 7:30 minutes, his load in oven was taken out, and load was at 195C, and coating remained Blue.
For coating to go green, temperatures may have been much higher than you thought, or as I said, radiant heat from your element damaged coating colour. You really must determine what conditions and times are required for a specific load to work inside your oven.

Hi,
Thanks for the response. Please don't consider my probing as argumentative, just inquisitive because according to what you've stated above, I should be good. To your points:
1. The oven has an internal fan circulating the air, and the bullets are fully shielded from the elements by a tray of sand (I only use the bottom elements.)
2. Temperatures were taken from both a coated cast bullet with the TC inside the bullet, as well as a probe in the oven cavity itself at the level of the tray by different thermometers (calibrated within 5°F of each other.) In neither case, did the temperatures exceed 384°F (195.5°C.) Actually, the bullet temperature never quite got to the oven temperature. That's why I was leaning toward the duration of the cure more so than the temperature. I'll continue to try to perfect my technique and/or equipment to take full advantage of the Tru Blu. I know I'm getting very good, shootable bullets, so now it's all a matter of aesthetics!
Thank you again for your help.
Ed

[Ausglock]

G'day Ed.
My oven is a domestic wall oven that has been modified.
It has an element at the rear around the fan and another in the top of the compartment.
My top tray is about 6" from the top element. Bottom tray is about 10" from the top element.
both trays come out exactly the same colour, so airflow is the king of uniformity.

[RedlegEd]

G'day Ed.
My oven is a domestic wall oven that has been modified.
It has an element at the rear around the fan and another in the top of the compartment.
My top tray is about 6" from the top element. Bottom tray is about 10" from the top element.
both trays come out exactly the same colour, so airflow is the king of uniformity.

Hi Trevor,
I can see how that would make a big difference. My oven is a larger, heavily insulated, toaster oven with a convection fan, but I'm not convinced it really moves a lot of air. I'm just curious how your oven can bring the internal temperature of the load to 195°C after only 7.5 minutes, even with preheating. I think the only way mine could work that quickly would be to have an excessively high ambient temperature in the oven, which I understand would really over-cook the coating. I don't want to make this harder than it seems, and maybe I'm just dense, but I'm trying to learn so I can make the best quality coated bullets (and pretty too.)
Thanks,
Ed

[RydForLyf]

Hi,
Yes, you read that correctly. Okay, another question regarding temperature. I'm guessing that the key is the temperature of the coating itself and not the bullet, correct? So if I put a load into the oven at, say 185°C, and it gets to and stays at that temperature for at least 2 minutes, that should cure the coating regardless of the internal bullet temperature, correct? I don't mean to be nit picky, but it takes a lot longer than that for the bullet to heat through to the oven set temperature. In any event, here's what my Tru Blu came out like...pretty, just not Blue. I'll try again using the advice you and Trevor provided. BTW, the blue stain on my hand is what I was hoping for!!
Thanks again,
Ed

Mine look exactly like yours, blue-green. I jumped onto the TruBlu wagon back around page 645 and gave it the college try. Not to bore you, but I tried every temp and time combination I could come up with, bought a different oven too. I was never able to get a blue bullet. Don’t get me wrong, what I get is nice looking, just not blue. I’m happy with the color I get, but if someone can give me a new process to use, I’ll try it and see if it will work.

[RedlegEd]

Hi RydForLyf,
I've read your posts and see that you've also been trying to nail down that elusive blue. I will tell you that I tried backing off the temp and time, and the bullets did come out blue, but failed the swipe test, so back into the oven they went to finish curing. Of course, in the process they lost the pretty blue. Like I told HI-TEK and Trevor, I know I'm making good coated bullets, I'm just after aesthetics now. I appreciate your comments as now I don't feel like I'm all alone.
Regards,
Ed

[Ausglock]

looking at your bullets, both of you are not that far off what mine are.
When you are adding the coating to the bucket of bullets, Are you shaking, swirling, etc etc the mix immediately before adding to the bullets?
I use a 10ml syringe and suck up, squirt back, then suckup the 6mls needed. this homogenises the mix.
remember this stuff settles out real quick.
If you are adding a weak, settled mix it can cause a weak colour..
Just saying..

[RedlegEd]

looking at your bullets, both of you are not that far off what mine are.
When you are adding the coating to the bucket of bullets, Are you shaking, swirling, etc etc the mix immediately before adding to the bullets?
I use a 10ml syringe and suck up, squirt back, then suckup the 6mls needed. this homogenises the mix.
remember this stuff settles out real quick.
If you are adding a weak, settled mix it can cause a weak colour..
Just saying..

Hi Trevor,
Yes. Thoroughly shaken (not stirred) (sorry, I just had to say it) and mixed before putting into a measuring spoon and sucked up by a 10 ml syringe to apply to the bullets. I’m only using 6 ml/5 lbs of bullets and I have mixing balls in the bottle of coating solution. I appreciate the help and suggestions, and I’ll keep trying, but at this point I think it’s going to stay elusive for me.
Ed

[RydForLyf]

looking at your bullets, both of you are not that far off what mine are.
When you are adding the coating to the bucket of bullets, Are you shaking, swirling, etc etc the mix immediately before adding to the bullets?
I use a 10ml syringe and suck up, squirt back, then suckup the 6mls needed. this homogenises the mix.
remember this stuff settles out real quick.
If you are adding a weak, settled mix it can cause a weak colour..
Just saying..

Shaken, not stirred and then immediately squirted into measuring spoons and then into bucket. No settling at all.

While baking, I can watch the blue start to turn colors when ATM probe reads about 300F, 65F below cure temp. Total cook time is 8.5 minutes with oven set to 192C, measured and controlled via PID. Oven is convection and attempts were duplicated in an air fryer I bought for experimenting.

I'll test later this summer to see if the results will change when heat and humidity is higher.

[HI-TEK]

looking at your bullets, both of you are not that far off what mine are.
When you are adding the coating to the bucket of bullets, Are you shaking, swirling, etc etc the mix immediately before adding to the bullets?
I use a 10ml syringe and suck up, squirt back, then suckup the 6mls needed. this homogenises the mix.
remember this stuff settles out real quick.
If you are adding a weak, settled mix it can cause a weak colour..
Just saying..

I saw your initial photos taken inside. They seem to have a strange colour.
When you took it out into sunlight, they glowed Blue and lost that strange colour aspect.
The colours I see posted, seem also to be taken under indoor lighting and look very similar to first indoor photos.
If they are photographed indoors, I wonder how the posted Blue looks outside in full sun.