simple Hi-Tek coating

[HI-TEK]

If you mix it straight with gasoline, or as some say petrol, you have to be careful with the ratio. We used to use it back in the 60s and 70s in our cars to boost power. If you get too much it will burn holes in parts when your car is not set up to use it I was told. We also used moth balls. According to some it would boost the power. The alcohol seemed to work. The few times I used mothballs I couldn't tell.

Glad to see the blue working. All please post your results with wipe and smash test.

Avenger442,
You are correct, over use/excessive use of IPA is no good at all, as the burning of fuel gets much higher temperatures than components are designed for. Generally use of IPA is advised to be added at 1%, or 1 litre IPA per 100 litre fuel.
I always wonder why Ethanol is added to Fuel (Petrol) at 10%? At this rate fuel would be very hot, and as Ethanol absorbs moisture and can Oxidise, it can form acid, and corrode and dissolve metals carrying the fuel. None of the fuels service stations have moisture absorbing locks on the Ethanol fuels.
5 litre steel fuel cans corrode away fairly quickly with Ethanolised fuel.
People who think they are doing the right thing by buying the "environmentally better" lower cost fuels, often don't realise the long terms problems (and expenses) caused to car components and tanks that are not designed for such fuels.

[HI-TEK]

Quote "I understand adding alcohol to gas actually lowers your gas mileage a bit. Alcohol produces a quicker explosion and is not as good as gas, which has a more prolonged explosion, for your gas mileage. I suspect the people that sell it know this and it is one of the reasons they add it. Do I smell conspiracy?

Glad to see the blue working. All please post your results with wipe and smash test.

Avenger,
Just like changing from Petrol to Liquified Gas, the electrical timing system must be adjusted to correct settings to utilise the narrower power band produced by each fuel.
Most people do not understand this "tune up" requirements, so as you say, they end up using more fuel because of it. Most simply look at the Ethanol blend fuel as being cheaper, so they think they are saving money. It is not realised, that they use more Ethanolised fuel to go same distance as non Ethanol fuels. In real terms, it is ending up costing a lot more over time both immediately and long term.

Conspiracy???? may be....it provides more tax revenue to governments, and provides lots of repair jobs for mechanics and spare parts suppliers who also pay tax, including goods and service tax.
Ethanol producers are assured with constant demand for Ethanol into fuels, so they benefit as well.
On it goes.... poor car owners.....

[Stephen Cohen]

Joe, I will post how the blue works as soon as it gets dry enough to walk out back. All this chemistry lesson on Ethanol makes me wonder about my love of Bourbon and Bundy. I have a mate who would agree with you in regard to cheaper Ethanol fuels as he is kept busy replacing, in tank fuel pumps that have failed due to corrosion. Regards Stephen

[HI-TEK]

Joe, I will post how the blue works as soon as it gets dry enough to walk out back. All this chemistry lesson on Ethanol makes me wonder about my love of Bourbon and Bundy. I have a mate who would agree with you in regard to cheaper Ethanol fuels as he is kept busy replacing, in tank fuel pumps that have failed due to corrosion. Regards Stephen

Stephen
Thanks for update.
I am going to get in trouble steering this site into unsuitable off-subject areas.

Last 3 or so days, we have been blessed with excellent rain. A creek behind us that has been dry for about 2 1/2 years is full and flowing freely after 2 days of rain. It has eliminated our worst fear of being burned out with bushfires.

If you are also getting rain, the only way you will be able to dry coating adequately is warm air drying. It is simply much too humidity for proper drying.

Man after my own taste, Honey Bourbon and Directors Special Bundy Rum.

With Oxygenated fuels, & corrosion in car parts, this can be easily stopped but they don't want to do that. Many years ago, I used to be involved with a company, supplying fuel additives that was supposedly added to Ethanol based fuels that stops oxidation of fuel, and also prevents corrosion and lubricated moving parts handling fuel.. Refineries refused to use it because it added about 0.0001 cent per litre to fuel manufacture costs.
I suspect that now consumers are paying the extra price, with repairs needed, (probably 100,000 fold or more)
Replacing in tank failed pumps, is only a tip of an iceberg situation and is cheapest repair.
Other areas of corrosion will not show up for longer periods, and that is where there is huge costs involved such as fuel lines, injectors. In some cars, heads will also be corroded especially Aluminium types.
Then there is exhaust systems, where acidic Water condensation eats away mufflers and pipes. Some fancy exhausts in modern cars is hundreds of Dollars to replace.
I got a shock the other day, when I had my car Rego Checked. I was talking to the mechanic inspector, he showed me that my car had 3 Catalytic converters, (all ok at this time), and without muffler and pipes it would cost about $5,000 to replace converters if they corroded away or developed exhaust leaks. Despite my exhaust being Stainless Steel, the acidic gasses in time, destroys Stainless ability to protect itself, and simply becomes pin holed and leak like a sieve..
Stainless steel simply does not rust, but will corrode. Even Orange Juice eats Stainless.

[Avenger442]

Have a 1990 Nissan SX with 50,000 miles on the clock sitting in my driveway with a failed fuel pump. It sat for several years and didn't get cranked (mother-in -laws car). New fuel pump to be installed is sitting near my foot as I type this. But we have too many cars and don't need it right now.

Since the bake temp is an issue with the blue. I would like to ask an additional item be posted. For those of you that measure temps please post them and time baked after putting in oven. This along with photos of finished and wipe and smash test. I'm still working with mine.

[Avenger442]

Got a new toy.




Eight round Ruger Redhawk 357 magnum. It is my combined Christmas, Anniversary and Birthday gift.

[Ausglock]

TruBlu data.

Tray load: 250 9mm 135gn RN
Pre-warn loaded trays: Yes
Oven temp:195
No. of trays per oven bake: 2
Bake time: 7:30mins
Turn trays at 1/2 way mark: Yes.
Wipe test: Pass
smash test: Pass

[HI-TEK]

TruBlu data.

Tray load: 250 9mm 135gn RN
Pre-warn loaded trays: Yes
Oven temp:195
No. of trays per oven bake: 2
Bake time: 7:30mins
Turn trays at 1/2 way mark: Yes.
Wipe test: Pass
smash test: Pass

For my 2 cents worth, it is more important to monitor load temperature in oven, instead of oven temperatures.
All Hi-Tek coatings need to get to 180C, and, after that, held there or slightly above for another 2 minutes. All colours will benefit with closer product temperature monitoring.
Ovens are simply source of controlled heat to bake loads.
The higher the oven temperature is set, the faster product is heated, but there is a down side to this.
With oven set at higher temperatures, it is quite possible to over bake or over shoot product temperatures, and quickly, especially when there can be a distraction that takes attention off the watching of a baking load.
It is very easy to have a load baked for an extra 1 minute.
If the oven temperature is set "high", in that extra 1 minute baking, colour change becomes more noticeable.

[HI-TEK]

Since the bake temp is an issue with the blue. I would like to ask an additional item be posted. For those of you that measure temps please post them and time baked after putting in oven. This along with photos of finished and wipe and smash test. I'm still working with mine.

Avenger442
The bake temperature with Blue is not an issue. As I have said, many times, the Hi-Tek coatings need to be heated to 180C and kept there (or close enough) for another 2 minutes.
People seem to be concentrating/focusing on oven temperatures, when they should be watching product temperatures.
Ausglock, already had reported baking Blue, and when load was taken out of oven, it was near 195C, (using an IR thermometer). Blue remained Blue.
Another 1 minute later, in same oven, same settings, the Blue started going towards Green.
This colour change with over bake, occurs with all Hi-Tek coatings aside from Black versions. Blacks will remain black with over bake.
It is much better to set ovens closer to required temperatures, and colour and reproducibility can be maintained

[Ausglock]

I already have my alloy core heat temp time, so I don't check it anymore.
That's why I keep 7:30 time for all my baking. whether it is 9mm, 44, 45 etc. tray loading controls my baking procedure.

[Avenger442]

Avenger442
The bake temperature with Blue is not an issue. As I have said, many times, the Hi-Tek coatings need to be heated to 180C and kept there (or close enough) for another 2 minutes.
People seem to be concentrating/focusing on oven temperatures, when they should be watching product temperatures.
Ausglock, already had reported baking Blue, and when load was taken out of oven, it was near 195C, (using an IR thermometer). Blue remained Blue.
Another 1 minute later, in same oven, same settings, the Blue started going towards Green.
This colour change with over bake, occurs with all Hi-Tek coatings aside from Black versions. Blacks will remain black with over bake.
It is much better to set ovens closer to required temperatures, and colour and reproducibility can be maintained

Joe
So are you saying there is not a time and temp sensitivity with the blue that does not exist with the other colors?
As you know by previous post I am not the color guy. I care more about performance out of the barrel to target. And Hi Tek will give you that. But would like the blue to work as it is one of my college's colors. While I have tested colors for you guys in the past and had pretty much the same results as Ausglock, I will admit I am not the color Guru.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Avenger442;4825193]Joe
So are you saying there is not a time and temp sensitivity with the blue that does not exist with the other colors?


Avenger442
What I am trying to say is, that all the HI-TEK coatings can be affected with over bake or longer bakes, but extra heat or longer heating only affects colour.
I am trying to also say and repeat, that the requirements to correctly bake the HI-TEK coatings, is the coated alloys in an oven, needs to get to 180C, and stay there or nearby for approximately another 2 minutes.
When ovens are set at higher temperatures,(200C or more) there is a stronger possibility of over baking taking place, and more attention is needed for time in oven, when to take out product, and when it is ready and is baked adequately.
The 200C was adopted, by commercial casters, simply to speed up production rates. That information is now used by hobbyists, and is appearing to be causing some confusion and overbake colour problems.
I have suggested many times, that it seems to me, that people focus on Oven temperatures.
The focus should be on product temperatures.
It is not possible to accurately determine product temperature without an IR gun. Sticking a thermometer inside oven only measures air temperatures. That does not guarantee product temperatures being the same.
If you look at the graph of coated cast temperature (that was posted) the oven was set at 180C, and oven held that temperature at 180C (air temperature). However, the coated cast load had a lag time and lower temperatures by up to 20C less than oven set temperature. It took several minutes for coated cast load to get to the oven temperature of 180C.
If the oven is set to 200C, the air in oven is at 200C, and same load will get to 180C much faster, and will continue rising in temperature towards 200C.
This faster rise in temperature can result in over bake, if user is not aware, when load temperatures have been reached for correct cure.
For reference example, if product baked at 180-185C for 10 minutes, if products baked at 200C for same 10 minutes, the colour looks different and either darker or changed.
If user does not mind colour change, all is good.
For people who want more even reproducible colours, the 10 minutes bake at 200C is not same colour as obtained at 180C.
I am not saying that people cant use 200C settings, but much more care/attention is needed to keep an eye on actual product temperatures, which governs set rate requirements and also final colours.

[Tazza]

That's the beauty of me mainly using black, if i over bake it, it still stays black

I do also use a little 122 red, for me, it always comes out the same red/purple with 12 minute bakes @200c. I did try and lower the bake time for black and red, but they must not have gotten to 180c for the required time to cure as they did not all pass the wipe test, so i stick with 12 minutes. It works for me.

The times i noticed that they did not all fully cure is when doing the second coat, some looked lighter, as in the same shade as the initial coat, it wasn't cured so it simply washed off and re-applied when i was shaking them around.

I'm sure i could use shorter bake times if i did smaller batches, but it all goes on what works for you in the end.

I'm wanting to try a new colour to put on my hot open gun loads so i can't mess up and put a hot load in my standard gun and potentially blow it up. Considering trying the dead pool ones Trevor did with red and black....

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Tazza;4825381]That's the beauty of me mainly using black, if i over bake it, it still stays black

I do also use a little 122 red, for me, it always comes out the same red/purple with 12 minute bakes @200c. I did try and lower the bake time for black and red, but they must not have gotten to 180c for the required time to cure as they did not all pass the wipe test, so i stick with 12 minutes. It works for me.

The times i noticed that they did not all fully cure is when doing the second coat, some looked lighter, as in the same shade as the initial coat, it wasn't cured so it simply washed off and re-applied when i was shaking them around.

Tazza,
you in fact identified exactly what I was trying to say. Oven set at 200 does not tell you, at what point your load has reached correct temperatures. The wipe off test simply exposes the problem, that oven set temperatures does not tell you what is the temperature of your load. Your load, simply did not reach 180C, so the solvent test showed this. You could have simply returned this under cooked load back into the oven to finish it off.
Solvent fail test, is also indicating, you may have over loaded oven, and possibly, you also may not have adequate air circulation to transfer heated air energy to transfer that heat to the load.

[slide]

A.T.M. Fellas A.T.M.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=HI-TEK;4825392][QUOTE=Tazza;4825381]


The times I noticed that they did not all fully cure is when doing the second coat, some looked lighter, as in the same shade as the initial coat, it wasn't cured so it simply washed off and re-applied when I was shaking them around.

Tazza,
You have also identified that with second coat, the heat transfer into load was slower.
This is directly due to the additional coat being applied and because coating is insulating, heat transfer was slowed to correctly heat up load.
This also exposes possibility that oven may have been over loaded and you have not adequate heat circulation.
If you had used an IR laser thermometer, to measure product temperatures, it would have saved you a lot of Gray hairs. It would have revealed the true product temperature versus oven settings when you were taking out that load. Then you could have slipped that tray back into the oven, and bake some more until load was at 180C and for another 2 minutes afterwards.
SIMPLE...….

[Tazza]

[QUOTE=HI-TEK;4825392]

Tazza,
you in fact identified exactly what I was trying to say. Oven set at 200 does not tell you, at what point your load has reached correct temperatures. The wipe off test simply exposes the problem, that oven set temperatures does not tell you what is the temperature of your load. Your load, simply did not reach 180C, so the solvent test showed this. You could have simply returned this under cooked load back into the oven to finish it off.
Solvent fail test, is also indicating, you may have over loaded oven, and possibly, you also may not have adequate air circulation to transfer heated air energy to transfer that heat to the load.

That is exactly what i was going for, the oven may be up to temperature and the projectiles are in there for what people think is long enough, but the actual projectiles have not yet reached the required temperature to cure. This shows that for one person 7.5 minutes works, yet for others like me, need the full 12 minutes for it to get there. I could put less in my trays to make it heat faster, but hey, 12 minutes works for me.

If i knew they were under cooked, i would have put them in again as i have messed up before and had the oven set to 150c for some stupid reason. Did a few batches and could smell that they didn't seem right, but continued doing the batches, then i saw the setting was wrong, a few choice words, i re-baked them at the correct temperature and they cured just fine, so i can confirm it does work without issues.

[bazzer485]

Hi Tek problems. Smoking and rough finish
I’ve just coated my first 45acp boolits ( 223 gn and 6.6 gn Power Postol) and shooting them I’ve more smoking than with conventional lubed boolits. I gave them three thin coats, they didn’t turn out smooth at all, the color is Kriptonite Geen. They past both the smash test and the acetone rubbing test. So are my results normal? I did start reading the Hi Tek thread, but 629 pages is a little time consuming. I really would like to get rid of the smoking issue, I don’t really care about color or the rough textured finish.
Thanks
Bazzer

[Tazza]

Rough texture could be because you are shaking them too long and the coating was too dry when you dropped them out, leaving a rough texture. If you dump them sooner, you should have a smooth coating.

As for smoke, it does sound like under cooking, but if they pass the wipe and smash tests, they should be fully cured.

Can you try cooking a batch longer to see if it's not quite cured causing the smoke?

[Ausglock]

Power Pistol powder is bloody smokie. No matter what pills you use...And very flashie as well.
Great fun in an open gun.......