simple Hi-Tek coating

[popper]

So far, Hi-Tek has not equaled the performance of lubes in rifle bullets. I had high hopes it would prove out but at this point it seems PC has more potential. I have followed the work that popper has done and it looks like he has abandoned trying to get full power loads from his .30/30 using Hi-Tek. I am not saying one mans experience is all I am basing this on - but he has done (or at least posted) the most on rifles.

I tried full power and plinker loads with H-T using low antimony (~50/50 COWW/Pure) and didn't get the accuracy. Leadman used lino and got close. We both HT to get hardness to take pressure, H-T cooking seems to kill the BHN. I'm starting to think that the gunk I got in the bbl was actually gas cut coating. From pressure curves from Larry G, I was running close to 35k psi. It works OK with PC. The 308 is close to 45K psi and works good with PC.

[btroj]

Popper, did you ever try some traditional lube on a coated bullet?

[Shotgundrums]

Range report:
Hi-Tek Dark Green
9mm 147gr 100rnds accurate-no leading
45 Auto 200gr 100rnds accurate-no leading
357 Magnum 100 rnds accurate-lead streaking
at the last 1-2in of 6 in barrel.
BUT...it brushed out easily with a
dry bronze bush. So.....
What y'all think?

[Gateway Bullets]

I think it's great.

[dverna]

Hi,
Just wanted to ask if posting on page 63 with rifle ammo using Hi-Tek, was of relevance to what you are thinking?
Many are of the opinion that the coating was not suitable for high speeds.
It appears, that results shown on page 63 seem to add some credibility of what can be achieved.

As advised many times previously, the coating has been used on Jacketed ammo to reduce or prevent Copper fouling, and was used with great success.
This was with rifle ammo, so I dont really know all end use applications, but from knowing properties of the coating, there is no reason why it should not work.
It may be a simple thing to match alloy, powder to ammo and get right results.
I found, that over they years, many who are successful in using the coatings, dont publish their results.
It is most disappointing as many would like to benefit from wisdom gained from others.

Hi-Tek,

Yes, I saw the post and the fact that the coating does not lead at high velocity is very promising. But I believe Leadman had mediocre accuracy. That is a deal killer for me. But I hold out hope. As a target shooter I am not limited to soft alloys or alloys that lose hardness (as popper experienced) with the heat treating. So yes, there is a lot of promise and I hope someone finds the "sweet spot". I will use straight Linotype if the accuracy is there. But many casters, will want to use WW or range lead. It may be difficult to satisfy both camps.

I have "gripped" about this in other threads. A bullet that does not lead is great, but it must be accurate. And one "wallet" group does not prove accuracy.

I believe there is a good sized market for a coating that provides consistent 1.5 moa accuracy at rifle velocities - even if the bullets must be made from Linotype. Accuracy and high velocities are achievable with paper patched bullets but they are a pain to produce - at least if you need a bazillion of them to feed an AR. More bullets are shot at steel/paper than at game. In fact, if I was a hunter, I would paper patch the few 100 I need for my .30 calibers and get velocity, accuracy and expansion.

In re-reading my post I see how it can be viewed as being critical (and in a way it is) but it is not a condemnation of coated bullets. Many people are going to be well served with them. It is another way to do things and there is definitely a place for it. Just as there are scores of lubes and everyone thinks the one they use is the best for them. I suppose I reacted to Americans as being viewed as somewhat slow because we have not jumped on the bandwagon as our friends downunder have.

I will take a small dig at our friends downunder. You said, "I found, that over the years, many who are successful in using the coatings, don't publish their results." Well that is just plain WRONG!!!!. After all, we are not shooting to win pickup trucks so what is the big secret??? I guess Americans are more giving in spite of being slow. LOL

I see myself as a possible convert. If I thought coated bullets did not hold promise, I would not follow these threads. Traditional lubes work OK for my pistol bullets and I like the productivity I get. Now, if/when there is a breakthrough with accuracy at high velocities ........ shake and bake - here I come!

Like I commented earlier - this is not that "simple". We are near 70 pages, and we have not found an accurate rifle load - yet.

I will be less critical in the future. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Don Verna

[popper]

Btroj yes, close to the same loads in30/30 & 308 with veggie oil, worked fine good accuracy and no leading, just slightly messy.

[Shotgundrums]

After further inspection, there was minor leading in my 9 & 45 barrels. But, it wasn't hard to remove. A light soaking, a brushing, tight jag, clean. Leading is definitely far less than with traditional cast/lubed booooolits.

[HI-TEK]

Hi-Tek,

Yes, I saw the post and the fact that the coating does not lead at high velocity is very promising. But I believe Leadman had mediocre accuracy. That is a deal killer for me. But I hold out hope. As a target shooter I am not limited to soft alloys or alloys that lose hardness (as popper experienced) with the heat treating. So yes, there is a lot of promise and I hope someone finds the "sweet spot". I will use straight Linotype if the accuracy is there. But many casters, will want to use WW or range lead. It may be difficult to satisfy both camps.

I have "gripped" about this in other threads. A bullet that does not lead is great, but it must be accurate. And one "wallet" group does not prove accuracy.

I believe there is a good sized market for a coating that provides consistent 1.5 moa accuracy at rifle velocities - even if the bullets must be made from Linotype. Accuracy and high velocities are achievable with paper patched bullets but they are a pain to produce - at least if you need a bazillion of them to feed an AR. More bullets are shot at steel/paper than at game. In fact, if I was a hunter, I would paper patch the few 100 I need for my .30 calibers and get velocity, accuracy and expansion.

In re-reading my post I see how it can be viewed as being critical (and in a way it is) but it is not a condemnation of coated bullets. Many people are going to be well served with them. It is another way to do things and there is definitely a place for it. Just as there are scores of lubes and everyone thinks the one they use is the best for them. I suppose I reacted to Americans as being viewed as somewhat slow because we have not jumped on the bandwagon as our friends downunder have.

I will take a small dig at our friends downunder. You said, "I found, that over the years, many who are successful in using the coatings, don't publish their results." Well that is just plain WRONG!!!!. After all, we are not shooting to win pickup trucks so what is the big secret??? I guess Americans are more giving in spite of being slow. LOL

I see myself as a possible convert. If I thought coated bullets did not hold promise, I would not follow these threads. Traditional lubes work OK for my pistol bullets and I like the productivity I get. Now, if/when there is a breakthrough with accuracy at high velocities ........ shake and bake - here I come!

Like I commented earlier - this is not that "simple". We are near 70 pages, and we have not found an accurate rifle load - yet.

I will be less critical in the future. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Don Verna

Thanks for your thoughts and ideas. It is much appreciated.
With your reference to our friends down under, I should really add some explanations.
The main reason I dont have much information, is that I generally do not deal with shooters.
I supply materials to manufacturers, who directly deal with their customers.
So, I dont get to have any discussions with individual use applications.
Manufacturers, are reluctant to share information to guard their market and processes.
The only time I seem to get contacted, when something goes wrong, and then I have to try and sort it out. It is very rare, that if all is going well, that people contact me directly.
In the past, it has been a battle to get any reliable and accurate data that can be posted.
Things are changing, as I have several who are keen to push the coatings to the limit, to determine what can be achieved, and they are sending back reports both good and bad.
I possibly may have new products that approach hardness of Copper on jacketed ammo.
They are being tested at this stage. I am hoping, that they may be more suitable for a larger range of applications and especially for rifle ammo.
With first trials, the coated projectiles when being sized, the guy nearly broke his sizer trying the push through the coated alloy. The beveled base became flat base.
Interestingly, the coating smashed fine, did not come off with solvent, and was in perfect condition after sizing.
This was done with standard Catalyst. After using the 5000/IPA, it slid through without any problems.
This coating is probably the toughest I have made, and I still have two more to test.
Lots of trials will be required which will take some time.
Results will be posted.
Thanks for your continued interest.

[Ausglock]

With first trials, the coated projectiles when being sized, the guy nearly broke his sizer trying the push through the coated alloy. The beveled base became flat base.
Interestingly, the coating smashed fine, did not come off with solvent, and was in perfect condition after sizing.
This was done with standard Catalyst. After using the 5000/IPA, it slid through without any problems.
This coating is probably the toughest I have made, and I still have two more to test.
Lots of trials will be required which will take some time.
Results will be posted.
Thanks for your continued interest.

Hell yeah. I'll be billing you for the new sizer handle. But my upper body sure got a workout.....

[Stephen Cohen]

I would like to make it clear to dverna and anyone else who was offended by my post. I in no way consider Americans slow witted, its just that given the gun industry you guys have I would have thought this coating would have been in America years ago. History has shown us , that America is quick to pick up on an idea and run with it till it is perfected in all aspects. I do believe with the feedback and experimentation that is going on now, we will see all problems and short coming with this coating ironed out. In my post I was in fact trying to convey how this site has helped us over here. At the risk of offending Australians, we have been slow to pick up on many great ideas. As I said this site has been great for spreading all new ideas and methods so we can all find what fits our shooting style. I offer my apologies for any offence taken, it was not my intent I assure you.

[btroj]

I take no offense.
Many people are slow to accept new ideas from elsewhere.n the "not invented here syndrome" is very real.

Change doesn't come easy for many.

This coating may not be the answer for everyone but it certainly seems to be gathering a following now.

Bravo to the Aussies, this stuff is a great advancement in shooting cast. I am just happy that you guys found a few places over here that were willing to import it for retail sales.

[zomby woof]

SC

Most of the people who have "picked up" on Hi-Tek are pistol shooters who do not have Stars. I can see why it is attractive for them. A properly adjusted Star does not "goop up" the bullet with excessive lube and we can lube and size over 1000 bullets/hr. Using a regular sizer or pan lubing is slower and there is "goop" to deal with. There is also a benefit for the few who have bullet feeders - but they are very few. For me, there is no driver to initiate a change from the Star. Making trays, doing the mixing, shake and bake (sometimes more than once) and still having to size does not make sense when I can run the Star. And the Star takes up less one square foot of bench space. If I did not have the Star, I would have jumped on board too - at least to try it.

So far, Hi-Tek has not equaled the performance of lubes in rifle bullets. I had high hopes it would prove out but at this point it seems PC has more potential. I have followed the work that popper has done and it looks like he has abandoned trying to get full power loads from his .30/30 using Hi-Tek. I am not saying one mans experience is all I am basing this on - but he has done (or at least posted) the most on rifles.

Still, I keep reading these threads as I realize there is a lot of work still being done and a breakthrough could happen that changes the game. Keeping the fingers crossed!!

Don Verna

Don,
I have a Star and yes there is much more time involved in the coatings verses using the Star. I'm still in the beginning stages of using the coating. The big benefits i see so far are when shooting indoors. There is no smoke, it's amazing the difference. Like I said, still in the early stages.

I am an experimenter at heart. I enjoy reloading, casting and shooting for this reason, lots to experiment with. This HI-TEK is another experiment for me. I see a benefit already.

[Gateway Bullets]

I would like to make it clear to dverna and anyone else who was offended by my post. I in no way consider Americans slow witted, its just that given the gun industry you guys have I would have thought this coating would have been in America years ago. History has shown us , that America is quick to pick up on an idea and run with it till it is perfected in all aspects. I do believe with the feedback and experimentation that is going on now, we will see all problems and short coming with this coating ironed out. In my post I was in fact trying to convey how this site has helped us over here. At the risk of offending Australians, we have been slow to pick up on many great ideas. As I said this site has been great for spreading all new ideas and methods so we can all find what fits our shooting style. I offer my apologies for any offence taken, it was not my intent I assure you.

We aints gots no comon cents hur in da states. Wee aint gots dem smarts like u guys gots! Lol

I live in Missouri also known as the "Show Me State" you have to prove everything to us! That attitude seems to be the norm in the rest of the states. We are skeptical, slow to change, and rarely take anybody's word for anything. We may fight amongst ourselves, but if you cross us....watch out!

I was not offended at all.

[castalott]

I offer my apologies for any offence taken, it was not my intent I assure you.

No worries mate! All the Americans I know desperately LOVE the Australians.

Dale

[high standard 40]

Concerning willingness to change........it was not that very long ago that on this very forum, many were laughing at the idea of "colored" bullets. Comments like "why on earth would anybody want green bullets?" were very common. I stressed in those discussions that it was not about color as such, it was about an alternative to traditional lubes. Times have indeed changed.

[BBQJOE]

I spent a good deal of time this summer with lubes of all types, and finally settled on hi tek. I still get a minor amount of lead in the barrel, but it's a dust as compared to chunks or ribbons.
I didn't get as far in my experiments as I would have liked to.
But here's where I didn't get to. if this stuff actually is closer to a jacket than a lube, is there still a need for a bullet to be 1 to two thousands over? And on top of that, is there any obturation of a FMJ?

[gunoil]

Yea, TC I love the bullet molds with no lube rings. And after magma star sizer they are incredible.

I have a new star and its never seen any famous blue lube yet.


45acp,lyman
9mm, NOE
380acp, custom NOE.

[kweidner]

Spent some time this afternoon with my M1A and ht gold. Boolit was a lee 154.5 gr Loaded over 30gr h335 sized to .311 and gas checked. I did use felix lube too as I was already running them through my sizer on my 450. It is right around 15bhn and runs right at 2000 fps IIRC last time I chronied it. I shot the first 3 and then made a sight adjustment for the last two. Absolutley zero leading and very pleasant to shoot. Need a little more to cycle the action but all good for plinking. Next time I will load 1gr hotter. They cycled in the summer at 30 but it is only around 70 degrees today. here are the loaded rounds. . here is the target.. First 3 were little left and i adjusted for the last two. Pretty pumped for 50 yd group with open sights. Here is the recovered bullet. it weighs 92.3 grains and expanded to .495. This should be great for hogs!

[kweidner]

I have no idea why my pictures post upside down from my Ipad. Sorry. The folks in Australia should by ok with it though

[HI-TEK]

I spent a good deal of time this summer with lubes of all types, and finally settled on hi tek. I still get a minor amount of lead in the barrel, but it's a dust as compared to chunks or ribbons.
I didn't get as far in my experiments as I would have liked to.
But here's where I didn't get to. if this stuff actually is closer to a jacket than a lube, is there still a need for a bullet to be 1 to two thousands over? And on top of that, is there any obturation of a FMJ?

Hi BBQJOE

Thanks for your input.
Just wanted to let you know, that I am working on a much harder coating that should approach Copper Jacketed type hardness.
Early stages, but so far things look reasonable OK.
You are right, with your thoughts about coating behaving more like jacketed ammo.
However, it is also designed to self adjust with heat of powder & friction, and self lubricate as it goes through changes during shooting.
I have some very good people who are really putting the stuff through grueling tests to see how this newer coatings work out.
With all the help and suggestions, it seems at this stage that all is heading in the right direction.
Will keep you posted.