simple Hi-Tek coating

[HI-TEK]

I'll have to give it a go when i get a chance, this looks interesting.

It would be great if we could determine, how long it will take for the quench hardening to start going back down towards original hardness?

[Tazza]

It would be great if we could determine, how long it will take for the quench hardening to start going back down towards original hardness?

That was my concern too, with steel, you harden it and it stays that way, but i did hear lead does loose hardness from heat treatment over time, but depends on how long it would take. MOST of us shoot what we cast pretty fast, say within a year or two, but i know a guy that has rifle loads that he did in the 60's or 70's.... So there area always expectations to the rules.

[Avenger442]

Has anybody got an update on Donnie? I hate to bother him or his wife right now.

All you guys talking about the acid and dangers reminded me of a story. I worked for 11 years at a university managing and coordinating construction for several different types of occupancy and fitting out empty floors. We did labs in one of the projects for some type of research. The labs had been finished and they were working in it. About two months later I got and emergency call on my beeper. When I answered it the Research Director was having a come apart about something that was going on with one of the chemical resistant sinks in one of the lab spaces. Told him I would be right over to have a look. When I got there he took me back to the lab. The sink had groves etched into the side about 1/8 inch deep and a hole next to the drain. When I opened up the cabinet under the sink there was a hole through the wood bottom of the cabinet and the concrete underneath had a hole in it. He and I tried to find out what had been dumped into the sink but no one was talking. We never found out. I had to tell the Director that this was not covered by their warranty and they would have to foot the bill for the repair. They were very expensive sinks with very expensive plumbing attached.

In a demo with the reps for these sinks they put muriatic acid in the sink with no damage. Sulfuric acid didn't even phase this stuff. But the recommended use for the sink call for nothing but diluted chemicals be put in them. I'm not sure what the researcher in that lab was using, all I know is don't want any of it around my house.

When we used muriatic to clean masonry we diluted it and we still wore rubber gloves, hardhat with face shield, rubber apron and rubber boots. If you worked with it all day you could still count on your clothes having holes in them. We always had a hose handy. I never knew anyone that got hurt bad but did hear some stories.

[Tazza]

Wow, sure must have been something nasty. I have used hydrochloric and Nitric acids, i thought nitric was supposed to be really nasty stuff, but it doesn't seem to be more aggressive than the HCL. High concentration sulphuric is supposed to be rather dangerous too.

Glad i don't use it much, i rather not have holes burnt into my clothing or having chemical burns.

[slide]

I talked to him via e-mail a couple days ago. He said he is doing good and was well pleased with the job the docs did. He was in quite a bit of pain for a few days. I hope he didn't get caught up in this stupid opiod scare and they didn't give any pain meds.

[slide]

I guess I could have edited the above post but ,oh well. As far as the acid I am not fooling with it anymore. I don't like messing with. It is bad stuff. I could dilute like Joe says but I will pass. I have only had trouble with coating flaking when I first started years ago but have learned better.

[Petander]

It would be great if we could determine, how long it will take for the quench hardening to start going back down towards original hardness?

Good read and links to deeper info here:

http://www.lasc.us/HeatTreat.htm.


Have you tried water dropping straight from the last bake? I have a feeling it's not a good idea,coating is not done yet. Or is it okay? Need to try and see. I could use a 16-18 BHN water dropped bullet. Not 36!

[dikman]

From my readings I get the impression that water-hardened lead will, over time, revert back to the hardness it had when cast.

[popper]

Water drop after last bake is ok. They don't soften over time unless excess tin is used as a hardener.

[Petander]

Water drop after last bake is ok. They don't soften over time unless excess tin is used as a hardener.

Good to know,thank you.

Many people can find pure, WW is becoming valuable antimony stash. Let's say I shoot 200 lbs of range scrap per year (here scrap is j-bullets & 22LR, I"m the only bullet caster around). Mixing that scrap with enough WW gives an alloy that hardens nice. I used to mix 50/50 or so, my WW also has 10% of Mono mixed in so there's some math to do. My 50/50 hardens too much but it's good 13 BHN as is.

Anyway the basic idea would be to use less WW than before,by heat treating.

[Tazza]

My range scrap came out to be 11, it gets lino added to give it tim to make it flow a bit better, i just need to work out a recipe that doesn't use loads of valuable linotype

[Petander]

I fired these 8 BHN 160 grain bullets today.VV N320 close to max,a fun snappy accurate load. TMG Gold.

Accuracy was there all the time,based on how I was hitting plates and claybirds. There was some minor leading in both barrels,first 2-3" had some lead streaks,I think 8 BHN plain base and 357 Magnum is a pretty long call.

But at least you can fire several dozen with good accuracy if you want a soft alloy hunting load. I will load more of these and see when/if accuracy goes south / real leading begins. Might even try N110 for full house.

[Petander]

Petander,
with your process you now seem to have invented a Chocolate colour from TMG Gold.

Here's a new one,can we call this "Dropbear Dropping"?

[Petander]

Now I noticed that the Dark Chocolate heat treated ones (220°C one hour) have settled down to 20 BHN. They skyrocketed to 36 right after one hour in ice water,being crazy brittle for a day. I didn't expect them to soften right away but they did.

So I loaded some of these 20 BHN:s and got normal accuracy with a clean barrel. Still no paper, plates,clays only. But I verified 75 meters last with a couple of dozen rounds,looking good in the snowy berm.

[dikman]

Petander, what was the hardness of those as cast, before heat treat/water dropping?

[Petander]

Petander, what was the hardness of those as cast, before heat treat/water dropping?

8 BHN by accident. Ingot mix-up.

Read a couple posts back. I'm trying to find a standard for heat treating,playing around with those 8 BHN bullets now. It takes a few days for them to settle. One hour 220 °C wasn't a disaster after all, now I also have 200 °C -treated that read BHN 14 after sitting overnight. They are going up in BHN.

I'm looking at this to get a magnum alloy while using less WW and more pure which is easier to get here. Hi Tek coating doesn't seem to mind the extra hour at all,it just gets darker. I coat normally first,then heat treat after a few days. Just to make sure the coating is fine first.

[HI-TEK]

Here's a new one,can we call this "Dropbear Dropping"?

If you are happy with that name, so be it.... I would call it Chocolate, because it looks like chocolate drops. Ah well.... what is in a name any way.....

What is more important is, that you have also confirmed other peoples tests with over bake results, that shows, that the Hi-Tek coating works OK afterwards.
The colour suffers, but no Leading and no loss of adhesion to alloy.
Over baking seems to produce some fairly nice colours. Some colours are not so pleasing after over bake, but still works OK.

[Petander]

I switched to more powerful loads with Vihtavuori N110. About 1500 fps /158 grain Lee, heat treated to ~18 BHN.

Again "normal" accuracy, I still didn't shoot (boring) groups but I was hitting steel and clays pretty good 25-75 m.

No cleaning needed after 80 rounds, I pushed two dry patches and examined a nice clean barrel.



Throat fit is a "push-through" @ 358, I will try 3585 one day.

[Petander]

I discovered a KISS load while waiting for another sizer die:

I loaded a few dozen stout N110 loads using unsized Lee 158:s. And unhardened, BHN 8-10 after coating a few days ago.They are about .360 and vary quite a bit. I was hitting a plate all the time with the Rossi carbine and now I'm back home looking in the barrel... it looks very,very clean.

This is very good news and confirms the "Fit is the King" -rule. I'll add a cat pic to make this post more meaningful:

[Petander]

TMG Gold is so good and easy.

I don't know why but I'm getting such a tough,elastic,glass-like but unbreakable coating with it... plain base bullets only for easy life,full house 500 S&W, 45-70,now 357...